From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#12787: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs24 -- Save As and Help no longer available Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 13:21:04 -0700 Message-ID: References: <8698659.1494633.1351877357323.JavaMail.root@vms170027> <10532993.1503752.1351883701083.JavaMail.root@vms170027> <83hap76ahz.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1351887740 20456 80.91.229.3 (2 Nov 2012 20:22:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 20:22:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 02 21:22:28 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNl2-0000sK-Ek for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 21:22:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33078 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNkt-0005SY-Om for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:22:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47211) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNkq-0005SQ-Vw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:22:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNkp-0005IM-UH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:22:12 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:35846) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNkp-0005IF-Ql for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:22:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNnZ-0008Pp-Gw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:25:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 20:25:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12787 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 12787-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12787.135188784932291 (code B ref 12787); Fri, 02 Nov 2012 20:25:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 20:24:09 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46097 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNmi-0008Ol-N3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:24:08 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:35711) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNmf-0008Od-P0 for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:24:06 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qA2KLDHD005871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Nov 2012 20:21:14 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qA2KLBvm016954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 2 Nov 2012 20:21:12 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt119.oracle.com (abhmt119.oracle.com [141.146.116.71]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qA2KLBeI008198; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:21:11 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.179.176) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:21:10 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <83hap76ahz.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Ac25NNXMvqLVGPRmRriG8fqaxhaVGQAAEpUQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:66360 Archived-At: > > I've been using Emacs extensively for seven years now > > and still find uses for the tool-bar. "Save As" is for > > me exceptionally useful. > > Well, those "real" users are those who decided to code the tool bar > and the menu bar, and to have it by default in Emacs. So I think this > is misdirected. Tossing some tool-bar icons because the tool bar had become too crowded was a quick workaround, but not a real solution. Ultimately, what tool-bar entries to include should be a user choice (and it should be easy to choose/configure). Some common GUIs do this: 1. Let users choose the size of the icons used (e.g. small, medium, large). 2. Let users choose (easily) which tool-bar entries to show, including for different contexts (i.e., modes, for Emacs). When I look for the user options available for customizing the tool bar, I find only these: `tool-bar-max-label-size' and `tool-bar-style'. And the latter option affects only the GTK+ toolkit (even though the option is available in non-GTK+ Emacs versions, for some reason). I don't use the tool bar, and I imagine that few of those who might be able to contribute to improving it actually use it. That might explain the primitive state, but not a satisfactory answer for a user who expects the kind of flexibility s?he sees in other apps.