From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew DeVault" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: How are the defaults chosen? Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 09:10:00 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87v9gln6h6.fsf@thornhill.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23120"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Theodor Thornhill" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 10 15:42:35 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGMqQ-0005tD-VD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 15:42:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44240 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGMqP-0002Y7-U2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 09:42:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35312) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGMWY-0007O9-To for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 09:22:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.cmpwn.com ([45.56.77.53]:37874) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGMWW-0007GA-IV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 09:22:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=cmpwn.com; s=cmpwn; t=1599744119; bh=7BkOmABON/uMEghQaVaQZhEDcE5kR6rfhriarMV9Zy8=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To; b=VxxAJ03AJrAt17mlc3xu0EmTUkS/Abaw/nxaa8Smv0mtlg1dk1UyE57MwflW307Yh oWvmzt0Hhnrcq384g0iCD5pL7CW4EonLtZVa8l0ATwz6F3bDHTtI2SfQlIDOXIIY/4 bvGHcaQTjYL5FnEA4KXbBIB2ngHqeG1j44ComeYs= In-Reply-To: <87v9gln6h6.fsf@thornhill.no> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=45.56.77.53; envelope-from=sir@cmpwn.com; helo=mail.cmpwn.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/10 09:21:59 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 09:41:43 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254999 Archived-At: On Thu Sep 10, 2020 at 8:47 AM EDT, Theodor Thornhill wrote: > Sure - I'll quote some stuff from earlier. Cheers :) > The discussion is around how to modernize the process around > contributing to emacs. It seems like some of the arguments made here > are the same you seem to want to tackle with SourceHut. I am sure you > are not aware, but different forges have been evaluated: > https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria-evaluation.html I am aware, actually, and I have submitted an evaluation for sourcehut by these criteria. Unfortunately this page is outdated and unmaintained, so it didn't go anywhere. https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/sr.ht-discuss/%3CC03B4X6WE7XN.9NAXAORGDJ0B%40= homura%3E There have been a few small improvements since this was written. > AFAIK, we are looking for volunteers to help with finding a satisfactory > alternative to debbugs. The biggest challenge seems to be to > transparently support both a web based and an email based > workflow. Existing solutions usually do either one or the other well, > but not both. There was a thread here about this in the last year. Aye, todo.sr.ht is a good replacement for debbugs. You can submit, comment on, and manage tickets by email, with or without an account, and with an account you can do all of those in a web browser as well. > Stefan Kangas writes > AFAIU, SourceHut has the explicit goal of enabling email based > workflows, which does sound in line with our needs. But it is still > explicitly in alpha. For the record, the alpha is not a vague sense of instability or incompleteness, but rather a specific set of guarantees: https://sourcehut.org/alpha-details/ Most of this relates to the hosted offering, but the same is true of the software itself, which can be self-hosted (it's 100% free/libre software). The software is approaching completion and most of the daily use features (like email for tickets) are robust and battle tested. The hosted service is also very reliable, with less downtime than both GitHub and GitLab this year. Data security is also taken very seriously-- all data is stored with at least 4x redundancy, and sometimes more. The performance is also best in class: https://forgeperf.org The main limitations of the alpha are: - Limited integration between services - The right is reserved to make backwards-incompatible API changes - Documentation is incomplete - Payment is optional for the hosted service, and will ultimately become mandatory for project owners (but not contributors) Additionally, a few important features are still under development, but if what's already there is suitable for your needs, then suitable indeed you shall find it. We started major planning towards the beta this month, which will resolve all of these issues, and mostly serves as a chance to improve reliability of the hosted service (though, again, it's already the most reliable offering available today) and pay back any accumulated tech debt. Basically, we're aiming for quality, so these milestones are where we push ourselves well above and beyond the standard set by most projects in our domain. Today sourcehut is already a pretty compelling option and a lot of projects are using it seriously as their primary hosting platform. Hope that was helpful. Happy to answer any other questions if you want to know more or need anything clarified.