From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Merging Finder into package mechanism Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:51:19 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87hbie8ppy.fsf@stupidchicken.com><41A82A0C268E42CA838BB6AF4C778B20@us.oracle.com><87eib72orn.fsf@stupidchicken.com><1DFC8CFFD80647C086EAC377F7AAA837@us.oracle.com> <87wroxgh1b.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1288633920 28067 80.91.229.12 (1 Nov 2010 17:52:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 17:52:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Chong Yidong'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 01 18:51:53 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PCyXw-0000wQ-KQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Nov 2010 18:51:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36837 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PCyXw-0007qa-26 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Nov 2010 13:51:52 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=35589 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PCyXp-0007pu-L5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Nov 2010 13:51:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PCyXn-0003uN-Re for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Nov 2010 13:51:45 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:35852) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PCyXn-0003ty-MI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Nov 2010 13:51:43 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id oA1HpfAr022054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 1 Nov 2010 17:51:42 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id oA1HnV9g002480; Mon, 1 Nov 2010 17:51:40 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt021.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 737409151288633877; Mon, 01 Nov 2010 10:51:17 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 01 Nov 2010 10:51:16 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Act5334S/Fq0skUlSpSHJlMz0exn7wAAqeAQ In-Reply-To: <87wroxgh1b.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:132244 Archived-At: > >> I'll add a placeholder NEWS entry as a reminder, but > >> there will likely be more changes before Emacs 24 is released. > > > > Please keep NEWS updated correctly wrt this breakage. NEWS is for > > users. If you can update change logs for developers then > > you can also update NEWS for users. You don't use "placeholders" > > in change logs, do you? > > I'm not sure you understand how NEWS is supposed to work, or the fact > that Emacs 24 is not yet released... I'm not sure you understand it. With your logic we should use placeholders for doc strings too, until just before the release. But then maybe I don't understand how doc strings are supposed to work? Nothing, including doc strings, the manuals, and even code behavior, _really_ matters for users until Emacs is released. Of course. But that is no reason to wait until just before a release to add the doc strings, update the manual, or correct the code. Likewise, for NEWS. Discussion, improvement, and completion of NEWS entries before the release, even long before, is not unprecedented or useless. The best time to write or update a NEWS entry is when making the code change. That produces better quality entries (familiarity) and can also help developers of 3rd-party code that is affected by the change. That things can still change before the release is no excuse for not documenting now what the behavior is now. That applies to NEWS entries as much as it applies to doc strings and the manuals. (I, for one, miss Richard's attention to the doc and NEWS.)