From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: generate 3) S-mouse-2: follow link in new window Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 13:42:49 -0700 Message-ID: References: <46F6BB27.2040504@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1190580251 15757 80.91.229.12 (23 Sep 2007 20:44:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:44:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juri Linkov , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 23 22:44:06 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IZYIv-0002R1-Px for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:43:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZYIt-0008No-4P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:43:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IZYIE-0007q5-UU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:43:07 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IZYID-0007oI-AG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:43:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZYID-0007oD-2C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:43:05 -0400 Original-Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IZYIC-0000mC-KN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:43:04 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l8NKgxLX001387; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:43:00 -0500 Original-Received: from acsmt350.oracle.com (acsmt350.oracle.com [141.146.40.150]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id l8NKgxST024763; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:42:59 -0600 Original-Received: from dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw2-141-144-72-44.vpn.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3236764361190580146; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 13:42:26 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <46F6BB27.2040504@gmail.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:79612 Archived-At: > > If there are many voices for `S-mouse-1' etc., then I'd ask that > > `mouse-1-click-follows-link' act for them as well, but, still, > > `S-mouse-2' would be the standard, following the Emacs `mouse-2' > > convention. > > I am for S-mouse-1 to open the link a new frame (mouse-1 follow link of > course) since that is what most users would expect. 1. `mouse-1' does not follow a link, "of course" - that behavior is user-configurable, and so should be the behavior of `S-mouse-1'. That was my point. Personally, I am against `mouse-1' following links by default, and likewise `S-mouse-1', but I can live with a counter decision. But in any case, this must be user-controllable with a user option. I proposed to use `mouse-1-click-follows-link' to control both. 2. And I proposed that we revisit the default value of `mouse-1-click-follows-link', now that people have had ample opportunity to try it. We made the default value what it is for the reason you gave, IIRC: it "is what most [new] users would expect". But those same new users might prefer the opposite configuration if they were aware of it. There are many cases where we prefer and choose a different default behavior from what people might be used to outside of Emacs, because the Emacs behavior is superior. I, for one, think this is the case for `mouse-2' and links. It is really not difficult to figure out that you click `mouse-2' to follow text that is highlighted when you mouseover it. I think this is a case of pandering to external habit with no real benefit. Honestly, how many of you (not new users) keep the default value of `mouse-1-click-follows-link'? Outside of Emacs, there is not the same need for the normal use of `mouse-1' to set point. Yes, we have found a mostly workable way for `mouse-set-point' to coexist with following links. But I find it to be a poor juggling of conflicting behaviors and a poor substitute for the superior behavior of `mouse-1' to set point and `mouse-2' to follow links. Why is there not such a conflict between `mouse-2's role in pasting and its role in following links? I suppose it's because you paste less often than you set point, and you don't paste into a link. Honestly, pre-Emacs 22, did you ever run into a UI conflict between pasting and following a link? And just as honestly, with Emacs 22 have you ever accidentally followed a link when you just wanted to select a buffer or window or move the cursor?