all messages for Emacs-related lists mirrored at yhetil.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: RE: TAB for non-editing modes
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 15:44:11 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <BNELLINCGFJLDJIKDGACIEPHCCAA.drew.adams@oracle.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200709222151.l8MLpUkY014551@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu>

> Duplication is not a good way to evaluate this, we have many keys that
> are duplicated.

Yes, for this command alone, we have `n', `SPC', `C-n', and `down'.

`C-n' and `down' often go together. `n' is a shortcut for `C-n', since Dired
is read-only.

`SPC' and `DEL' are sometimes used in Emacs (e.g. View, Info) to browse down
and up (forward or back). But in Dired we've broken that, since `DEL'
unmarks entries instead. Same thing for Buffer Menu. I wouldn't mind if
`SPC' removed the current mark and moved down, in analogy with `DEL', but
it's probably too late to change that.

> The question is it useful? Is it intuitive to use? Is it consistent
> with other uses of the same key?  IMO the answer is YES to all those
> questions.

The question is not just whether it useful, but how useful it is. When there
are already umpteen other simple keys bound to a command that is not
particularly important, is it worthwhile to waste another key on it?

Especially a key such as `TAB', which has important associations and uses in
other contexts:

- `TAB' is used for indenting, which can be context-dependent. Someday
perhaps we will have a notion of indenting for Dired. (No idea what such
indentation might mean - perhaps for inserted subdirs?)

- `TAB' is used for completion - both minibuffer and buffer text. Someday
perhaps we will have some notion of "completing" a file or directory entry
in Dired. (No idea what such completion might mean.)

- `TAB' is used for field navigation (particularly outside Emacs), as
Lennart mentioned. Someday perhaps we will have fields of some sort in
Dired.

Maybe you are thinking of a file/directory name in Dired as a field. Perhaps
that's what you think of as "consistent with other uses of the same key". In
that case, it would make sense, but I don't see `TAB' as very helpful for
this in Dired today.

Perhaps if we had a notion of "current column" and various operations were
permitted on the data in the current Dired column (e.g. change file
permissions, change the date), then `TAB' could move to the next "field" in
the current column. IOW, if a user changed the current column to
`Permissions', then `TAB' would move to the next `Permissions' field, where
you could change a permission (other than by `M', which acts regardless of
the current cursor column).

I'm not familiar with wdired, but perhaps it has such a notion of field, so
that some editing commands get their specific effect from the kind of field
the cursor is in. I don't know. In that case, letting `TAB' move among
fields might be useful.

Anyway, this is not all that important. I just don't like to see good keys
wasted.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2007-09-22 22:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 42+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-09-22  1:18 TAB for non-editing modes Dan Nicolaescu
2007-09-22  8:22 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2007-09-25 20:29   ` S-SPC for non-editing modes (was: TAB for non-editing modes) Juri Linkov
2007-09-25 21:14     ` Drew Adams
2007-09-25 21:59       ` S-SPC for non-editing modes Juri Linkov
2007-09-25 22:12         ` Drew Adams
2007-09-25 22:09       ` S-SPC for non-editing modes (was: TAB for non-editing modes) Andreas Schwab
2007-09-22 15:47 ` TAB for non-editing modes Richard Stallman
2007-09-22 16:35   ` Dan Nicolaescu
2007-09-22 19:01     ` Drew Adams
2007-09-22 21:23       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2007-09-22 21:40         ` Drew Adams
2007-09-22 21:51       ` Dan Nicolaescu
2007-09-22 22:16         ` bind commands that change buffer contents to `undefined' when read-only? Drew Adams
2007-09-23  0:37           ` bind commands that change buffer contents to `undefined' whenread-only? Drew Adams
2007-09-23  1:20             ` bind commands that change buffer contents to `undefined'whenread-only? Drew Adams
2007-09-23  1:49               ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-23  2:18                 ` bind commands that change buffer contents to `undefined' when read-only? Drew Adams
2007-09-23 18:16                   ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-23 20:42                     ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24  1:25                       ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-24  2:02                         ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24 15:24                       ` Davis Herring
2007-09-24 16:12                         ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24 17:38                           ` Davis Herring
2007-09-24 21:49                             ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24 18:14                           ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-25 10:44                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-25 18:00                               ` bind commands that change buffer contents to `undefined' whenread-only? Drew Adams
2007-09-24 18:19                     ` bind commands that change buffer contents to `undefined' when read-only? Richard Stallman
2007-09-25 14:15                       ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-22 22:44         ` Drew Adams [this message]
2007-09-23 14:48           ` TAB for non-editing modes Bastien
2007-09-23 23:59           ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23 15:05       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 16:43         ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24  0:11           ` Johan Bockgård
2007-09-24  0:33             ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24  0:46               ` Johan Bockgård
2007-09-23 15:04     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-24  0:56       ` Dan Nicolaescu
2007-09-24 18:20         ` Richard Stallman

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=BNELLINCGFJLDJIKDGACIEPHCCAA.drew.adams@oracle.com \
    --to=drew.adams@oracle.com \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.