From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta Subject: RE: New start up splash screen annoyance... Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 19:00:19 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1190599250 27821 80.91.229.12 (24 Sep 2007 02:00:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 02:00:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , emacs-devel@gnu.org, xemacs-beta@xemacs.org To: "Stefan Monnier" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 24 04:00:44 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IZdFY-0003AG-9G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 04:00:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZdFV-0005VT-IF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:00:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IZdFR-0005Su-Ni for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:00:33 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IZdFM-0005NE-4t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:00:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZdFM-0005N6-1g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:00:28 -0400 Original-Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IZdFL-0000VE-KT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:00:27 -0400 Original-Received: from agmgw1.us.oracle.com (agmgw1.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.212]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l8O20PMK028432; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:00:25 -0500 Original-Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by agmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l8O20Ods031737; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:00:24 -0600 Original-Received: from dhcp-amer-whq-csvpn-gw3-141-144-80-220.vpn.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3236806391190599194; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 18:59:54 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:79656 gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta:25840 Archived-At: > > This is madness. We are going overboard, trying to compensate for things > > that we never should have done in the first place. Who will try > > to close a window by resizing it to infinitessimal oblivion? > > I would. Based on experience with many other applications where you drag > separators to resize various areas. Fair enough. I admit that I too have done that (many, no; some, yes). But only after having first looked for a button or menu item to remove the pane. I've felt that UIs that have that as the only way to hide a pane are poorly designed. Such behavior is not obvious to a new user, IMO. Imagine if that were the only way to close a frame: shrink it down to nothing. You say you would try doing that based on experience, and I think that's the point here. Eventually, trial and error led to learning the workaround, and once learned, it's ready to try on another app that also has no visible indicator (button etc.). I'd rather we offer something more obvious.