From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: always put Customizations in `custom-file', never in `user-init-file' Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:44:11 -0800 Message-ID: References: <475DC998.5050205@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1197330420 11756 80.91.229.12 (10 Dec 2007 23:47:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:47:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , Emacs-Devel To: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 11 00:47:09 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J1sL3-0002Dq-1j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:47:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1sKl-0001vV-E5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:46:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J1sK2-0001g7-DF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:46:02 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J1sK1-0001fb-Dw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:46:01 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1sK0-0001fL-VB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:46:01 -0500 Original-Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J1sK0-0005s0-E7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:46:00 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id lBANjvQq005081; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:45:57 -0600 Original-Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id lBAGtWnQ031393; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:45:54 -0700 Original-Received: from dhcp-4op11-4op12-west-130-35-178-158.us.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3428090741197330248; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:44:08 -0800 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <475DC998.5050205@gmail.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85002 Archived-At: > > `custom-file' would be loaded explicitly: > > (load-file custom-file). Just as it is now. All I > > proposed was that any Customize stuff currently in > > `user-init-file' should be moved to `custom-file'. > > If custom-file is not loaded by default then it makes it even more > difficult for users Makes what more difficult for users? More difficult than what? `custom-file' has never been loaded automatically. Why propose that? What problem would that solve? > so I think it have to be loaded by default. Why? When would you load it, wrt loading `user-init-file'? Before? After? In the middle somewhere? What would you do if the `user-init-file' or some file it loads has an explicit (load-file `custom-file')? What if the automatic load had already happened? Users should be able to control when Customize customizations take place. Loading `custom-file' automatically would reduce their control. That would be a drastic, and negative, change from the current behavior. > If something has to be done before custom-file I would prefer a separate > file, .pre-custom-emacs or something. The only thing I believe would > have to go there is actually the name of custom-file (if the user wants > to change it). That way lies madness... How can you decide (for all users?) what "would have to go there" or when `custom-file' should be loaded? We need only two files: `user-init-file' and `custom-file'. The former should be for users to edit (possibly to load other files). Editing the latter should be discouraged: normally, users should not need to open `custom-file' in an editor.