From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stuart Hacking Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Key bindings proposal Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 18:38:23 +0100 Message-ID: References: <19534.1494.627000.357123@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19537.40472.267000.563053@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <176EDAD3B9E54E39870FA3F84A5DDF3C@us.oracle.com> <19542.56658.583000.394397@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19544.1015.468000.280770@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87lj8nsndb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <19545.14451.62000.682223@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19545.19472.187000.199606@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19545.20656.500000.91025@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19545.24079.734000.989637@gargle.gargle.HOWL> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1280943617 27870 80.91.229.12 (4 Aug 2010 17:40:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 17:40:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tom Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 04 19:40:15 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oghwt-0004n6-3L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 19:40:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34239 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oghwr-0007b0-Jn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 13:40:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=45405 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OghvC-0006P3-QJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 13:38:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OghvA-0004pc-6J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 13:38:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ww0-f49.google.com ([74.125.82.49]:46432) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OghvA-0004pV-2E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 13:38:28 -0400 Original-Received: by wwi14 with SMTP id 14so6519343wwi.30 for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:38:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:mime-version :content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=1iPu1Byc6TqPoPO3V35yQLxNZXDCIRGxDi86tHr6buk=; b=OlJlV30Z5fewSsB0xwNb2Bx/07R9kGlQFAySD0YJUs0FCc/LP2B/dPrHrjDfZX7hph GuOvmyR0Wj5ikE1iaN2dbR5qJzXwY9BzWPmX1zDYh+r4LUMDwRUKQV9R3F7BPIT2xR8L syUP70U+4WLChMQ9P9ZfavXgx2dc+oTmyUOhA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; b=P4WLEPu/uWCvNqFhfrIxXb/PA4xj/AqjJZZ94OTZDsTP0wg90YUdfN8nHte+CvpvaA ubhyddN4M0WsRSvs20N/ibeoGzmhVLScXETpxueKlnMixZikZAahCkjdjTGfoxO7Y03k ZApYcEaLYb+bWE0yY70S5Jtvg/tNt2ssHU7ow= Original-Received: by 10.227.143.12 with SMTP id s12mr7956520wbu.125.1280943506863; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:38:26 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from homunculus.home (host217-42-185-195.range217-42.btcentralplus.com [217.42.185.195]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b18sm7414327wbb.1.2010.08.04.10.38.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:38:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128258 Archived-At: On 4 Aug 2010, at 17:19, Tom wrote: > Uday S Reddy cs.bham.ac.uk> writes: >>=20 >>> In Emacs you have key bindings and M-x, no need for menus. >>=20 >> Yes, that is one "language". Nobody denies that! >>=20 >=20 > Which brings the question: is Emacs only targeted to English-speaking=20= > users? Internationalization is a natural feature of modern software. >=20 >=20 >=20 Just a few thoughts: Won't we encounter problems due to much of Emacs' UI being closely tied = to the underlying source code? Even in software that is localised, the source code is usually in = English. Emacs goes a step further by=20 having much documentation written inline with the code. A lot of the emacs documentation comes from source code doc-strings, = command names, arguments. As I see it, we=20 could at best hope for partial localisation. It would be a large effort=20= to achieve 100%. Tasks (and issues): * Translate Info Files There's a lot of this type of documentation for the manuals, but = translating it wouldn't impact=20 functionality. * Translate function documentation Documentation strings are inline with the actual code. Thus, = translation would=20 mean either duplicating all the libraries (no), separating the = documentation from the=20 code (no), or keeping the English documentation with the code, but = translating it and implementing a build process that will do the compile time substitution? * Translate the function names Probably not even necessary. * Translate the menu items and other UI strings Are any of these generated from function names? For inline = strings, perhaps they could be=20 extracted - but would this make it harder to read the code? Perhaps the = same suggestion as the inline documentation applies? (leaving the english, but implementing a = string substitution process) I think there would be not insignificant changes to the build process = and possibly some re-architecturing where=20 string management is concerned. Is there a big demand for localisation? --Stuart=