From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Tutorial incorrectly thinks emacs -Q uses customizations. Alarmist and confusing tutorial intro. Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:23:56 -0800 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1169925928 7172 80.91.229.12 (27 Jan 2007 19:25:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:25:28 +0000 (UTC) To: "Emacs-Pretest-Bug" , "Emacs-Devel" Original-X-From: emacs-pretest-bug-bounces+gebp-emacs-pretest-bug=gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 27 20:25:20 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: gebp-emacs-pretest-bug@gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HAtAr-0001Gu-80 for gebp-emacs-pretest-bug@gmane.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:25:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAtAq-0001pe-Ms for gebp-emacs-pretest-bug@gmane.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:25:16 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HAtAi-0001pG-3A for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:25:08 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HAtAg-0001p4-JX for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:25:06 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HAtAg-0001p1-Dg; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:25:06 -0500 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1HAtAf-0005wZ-Sy; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:25:06 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmgw3.us.oracle.com (rgmgw3.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.112]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id l0RJP3XU015898; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:25:03 -0700 Original-Received: from rcsmt251.oracle.com (rcsmt251.oracle.com [148.87.90.196]) by rgmgw3.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l0RJP2nP018878; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:25:03 -0700 Original-Received: from dhcp-amer-whq-csvpn-gw3-141-144-81-26.vpn.oracle.com by rcsmt251.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2401399921169925837; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:23:57 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for CVS Emacs." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-pretest-bug-bounces+gebp-emacs-pretest-bug=gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-pretest-bug-bounces+gebp-emacs-pretest-bug=gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:16832 gmane.emacs.devel:65534 Archived-At: emacs -Q Help > Emacs Tutorial You see this, in red, at the top: NOTICE: The main purpose of the Emacs tutorial is to teach you the most important standard Emacs commands (key bindings). However, your Emacs has been customized by changing some of these basic editing commands, so it doesn't correspond to the tutorial. We have inserted colored notices where the altered commands have been introduced. [More] This is wrong - nothing has been customized in emacs -Q. The wording is also bad: "standard Emacs commands" are not the same thing as "key bindings". So already we're teaching the vocabulary incorrectly. "has been customized by changing some of these basic editing commands". Customizing a key binding doesn't change a command. The wording is not good. "We have inserted colored notices" sounds horrible too. Who's "we"? The user is just following a tutorial; it is only the tutorial that should be speaking to the user - there is no need of 1) the user, 2) the tutorial, and 3) some "we" who comments about modifications "they" made to the tutorial by "inserting colored notices". If this doesn't appear to users to be an UGLY hack, then I don't know what would. If the idea is to adapt the tutorial so that it reflects the user's customized key bindings, then that is done poorly (or not at all). Similarly, if the idea is to mark all of the places in the tutorial that mention standard bindings that are not currently in effect because of customization. I really think this hack does more harm than good, at least the way it's done now. Just say that the tutorial reflects the standard Emacs bindings. That's all. "We" are trying to be too clever, and it hurts the user. Anyway... Clicking [More] then shows this: The following key bindings used in the tutorial had been changed from the Emacs default in the TUTORIAL (English) buffer: Key Standard Binding Is Now On Remark backward-kill-word more info delete-backward-char DEL more info It is OK to change key bindings, but changed bindings do not correspond to what the tutorial says. This is also wrong: "had been changed" is incorrect grammatically here. Perhaps "have" was meant. What is the point of "from the Emacs default in the TUTORIAL (English) buffer"? Buffer? English? Why is TUTORIAL uppercase? I don't understand this sentence AT ALL. What are we trying to say here? And why are we telling the user that s?he can change bindings? (during the tutorial? in the future? in the past?) The help shown from clicking [More] is also not aligned well, as can be seen above. It is also unclear: What does "Is Now On" mean? What is now on what? Does it mean that the Standard Binding (command), which is the second column, is now on that key? The order seems backward (German? ;-)). The order should be: Command Current Key Standard Key (emacs -Q) ------- ----------- ----------------------- backward-kill-word Or, better perhaps (depending on what the intention is - I'm lost): Key mentioned in tutorial Key in your Emacs Command ------------------------- ----------------- ------- backward-kill-word In any case, however this is done, it is bound to confuse. Another bug, unrelated to the tutorial: Clicking `delete-backward-char' does not show its binding (DEL). The doc string needs to mention this. Clicking either of the "more info" links leads to further incorrect information... Most importantly: Do we really need this? What is the point of scaring users with a huge red "NOTICE", and inviting them to click for more information that details ALL of the bindings that are different from the default bindings. (Not to mention that it does so erroneously.) This is crazy. This is the FIRST thing that a newbie will see, when trying to learn about Emacs. It sends only one message: "You will never understand Emacs. It is far too difficult for you to learn. You can't even figure out what we're trying to say about customized bindings. What a dummy you are - move along." Please, let's drop this or redo it completely. If we keep it, it needs to be 1) simple, 2) unalarming, 3) obviously of secondary importance. A tutorial should hold you by the hand in the beginning, not scare and confuse you.