add a mode-line menu to menu-bar?

add a mode-line menu to menu-bar?

[Drew Adams]

For consideration after the release -

There is now a lot of stuff going on in the mode-line. How about adding a
menu for all of that stuff to the menu-bar? This menu would not replace
mode-line clicking, but it would be an alternative, much as the Minibuf
menu-bar menu is an alternative.

Some of the mode-line functionality is not too obvious (different mouse
buttons on different parts of the mode-line). A menu for all of it could
also act as a learning aid (e.g. by showing the mode-line key sequences).

Because menu-bar space is limited, and this would be only a minor
convenience, it could be added to an existing menu, say Tools, as a submenu.
(Mode-Line functions are as much tools as Games are.)

I hear someone saying, "What next, a vertical-line menu? A fringe menu?"
Perhaps, if there is a fair amount of functionality involved for them. Why
not give a menu to each major UI component? Perhaps collect them all in the
same (sub)menu.

Just a thought.

Re: add a mode-line menu to menu-bar?

[Richard Stallman]

    There is now a lot of stuff going on in the mode-line. How about adding a
    menu for all of that stuff to the menu-bar?

I don't think its usefulness will be worth the complexity it adds
to the menu bar.

Re: add a mode-line menu to menu-bar?

[Slawomir Nowaczyk]

On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 11:04:09 -0800
Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:

#> For consideration after the release -
#> 
#> There is now a lot of stuff going on in the mode-line. How about adding a
#> menu for all of that stuff to the menu-bar? This menu would not replace
#> mode-line clicking, but it would be an alternative, much as the Minibuf
#> menu-bar menu is an alternative.
#> 
#> Some of the mode-line functionality is not too obvious (different mouse
#> buttons on different parts of the mode-line). A menu for all of it could
#> also act as a learning aid (e.g. by showing the mode-line key sequences).

In general, I think it would be useful... I, for one, really have no
idea what different mouse buttons in different places can do.

Having a place where the functionality is explained and easily available
would be good.

-- 
 Best wishes,
   Slawomir Nowaczyk
     ( slawomir.nowaczyk.847@student.lu.se )

All I want is a warm bed, and a kind word, and unlimited power.

RE: add a mode-line menu to menu-bar?

[Drew Adams]

> #> For consideration after the release -
> #> 
> #> There is now a lot of stuff going on in the mode-line. How 
> #> about adding a
> #> menu for all of that stuff to the menu-bar? This menu would not replace
> #> mode-line clicking, but it would be an alternative, much as the Minibuf
> #> menu-bar menu is an alternative.
> #> 
> #> Some of the mode-line functionality is not too obvious (different mouse
> #> buttons on different parts of the mode-line). A menu for all 
> #> of it could
> #> also act as a learning aid (e.g. by showing the mode-line key 
> #> sequences).
> 
> In general, I think it would be useful... I, for one, really have no
> idea what different mouse buttons in different places can do.
> 
> Having a place where the functionality is explained and easily available
> would be good.

FYI - tooltips do provide some help on mode-line mouse actions, as does `C-h a mode-line'.

There are also other reasons to add such a menu, including keyboard access via tmm. However, RMS has already decided against this.

Re: add a mode-line menu to menu-bar?

[Chong Yidong]

Slawomir Nowaczyk <slawomir.nowaczyk.847@student.lu.se> writes:

> In general, I think it would be useful... I, for one, really have no
> idea what different mouse buttons in different places can do.
>
> Having a place where the functionality is explained and easily available
> would be good.

That's what the tooltips are for.

Re: add a mode-line menu to menu-bar?

[Masatake YAMATO]

> FYI - tooltips do provide some help on mode-line mouse actions, as does `C-h a mode-line'.
> 
> There are also other reasons to add such a menu, including keyboard access via tmm. However, RMS has already decided against this.
> 

How about adding M-x describe-mode-line and "Describe Mode Line..." under the "Help" menu?
Like this:

|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|-uuu:---F1  *scratch*      All (5,0)    (Lisp Interaction ElDoc Abbrev)----2:13AM----------------
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|    1234       5              6    7 8      9                10    11         12
|   -uuu:---F1  *scratch*      All (5,0)    (Lisp Interaction ElDoc Abbrev)----2:09AM-----
|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|-uuu:%%-F1  *Help*         Top (1,0)    (Help View Abbrev)----2:10AM-----------------------------
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Describe which mode-line element?(1-12): 
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE: add a mode-line menu to menu-bar?

[Drew Adams]

> > FYI - tooltips do provide some help on mode-line mouse actions,
> > as does `C-h a mode-line'.
> >
> > There are also other reasons to add such a menu, including
> > keyboard access via tmm. However, RMS has already decided against this.
> >
>
> How about adding M-x describe-mode-line and "Describe Mode
> Line..." under the "Help" menu?
> Like this: <snip>

I don't want to belabor this, as a decision was already made, but the idea
behind a menu-bar menu for Mode Line was to provide a different means of
access to the mode-line commands, in addition to providing help about them
(a learning aid). The analogy made was the Minibuf menu-bar menu, for
minibuffer actions.

Wrt your suggestion about the Help menu - I find it less helpful than
tooltips, personally. The mode line can be configured differently by
different users and in different buffers. Tooltips generally provide help
that is (mostly) appropriate for the current mode-line configuration. A help
description for the mode-line would be general and verbose, unless it too
were a dynamic function (e.g. a collection of current tooltip info). I can't
tell from your message just what kind of help you suggest (dynamic and
context-sensitive, or static and general).

A Help menu item for the mode line might not be a bad idea, but it should
just go to the appropriate Info node, IMO. That node should detail the most
common mode-line constructs and mouse clicks. If we added such a Help menu
item, it might be good to put it in a submenu that also provided help about
other UI components - IOW, provide (Info) help on all UI components in one
place. These components would include, for example, components described
below Info nodes Screen and User Input.

Re: add a mode-line menu to menu-bar?

[Richard Stallman]

I think that having a menu bar menu to do what the mode line menus do
is creeping featurism.  Those operations are in mode line menus
because we wanted clicking on those places to do something natural or
useful.  That is all they have in common.  If we want to provide ways
to do (some of) those things in the menu bar, let's add each one in
the appropriate place in the menu bar.

But let's not do that now.