From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: NeXTStep port preferences Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:59:07 -0400 Message-ID: References: <8966189D-F430-4224-80BA-FA3653642C01@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-1--194737741; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216483166 10439 80.91.229.12 (19 Jul 2008 15:59:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:59:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Adrian Robert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 19 18:00:14 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KKEqz-0001ex-Hy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:00:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50375 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KKEq6-0002yo-Jy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:59:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KKEq1-0002xO-Og for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:59:13 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KKEq0-0002w9-1S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:59:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55391 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KKEpz-0002vz-TQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:59:11 -0400 Original-Received: from yw-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.46.155]:52573) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KKEpz-0003Pf-EJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:59:11 -0400 Original-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so252717ywk.66 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:59:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; bh=BQso22gzUiqAQOHPyeIJ+H1S8u/yZO42zVpAJcggzJE=; b=B8Mcr6pG6NqG8ciQkxd/EiWFMjkxLNA2UIsuuz7S7nI9LCTvLxcoiUN6zGo4BR0Y1W YolrU33zzAW+l9hd4vZauV0LEp9EC4BihAAwZUK8CspTDYOnDjw75YGAlDrSgEWFhwp+ l89X/EhoZ2xMdM1vZF2uFvrcYLfnMuid7p5/4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:mime-version:subject :date:references:x-mailer; b=e/1cYO0M0CCJLWPS3C+qq1/OS4lZXKVctMj0S1mIm78e+xXvEuUNveu0EyuJXMB86B SuPGgldSK1keOZLB9KP25rEDFu82DyQgnyy6r9y+J21ri52xFBZpWDMg2XEIyI8eXz4S ZcVpyds3lCUGDk/fVpONV/sOBaLU4lsfIdsGo= Original-Received: by 10.150.186.12 with SMTP id j12mr1511898ybf.187.1216483150015; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from CMU-276608.WV.CC.CMU.EDU ( [128.237.234.204]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 33sm184921yxr.3.2008.07.19.08.59.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:59:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.926) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:100982 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail-1--194737741 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian, On 17 Jul 2008, at 13:32, Adrian Robert wrote: > > The logic is similar to the "Options" menu, which itself > is "inconsistent with all other customizations": put a few of the > most frequently desired quick changes in a convenient place. How did you evaluate or estimate what customizations are frequent? For instance, how frequently would people want to use a highlight color in Emacs that is different from the rest of the system? Or use ugly, non-antialiased fonts and even choose special (deprecated) "quickdraw" rendering? How come the cursor blink rate is considered a frequently used setting? >> >> Where are these preferences stored? > > They are stored using the NS equivalent to X resources, as has > been discussed previously on this list and various OS X emacs > lists. Why are those settings stored in org.gnu.Emacs.plist, while others (from the Options menu) are stored in the custom-file? This makes it harder for people to troubleshoot their settings. I for instance have trouble with the antialiasing (can't turn it on in the current build). There's now an extra file location to know and to check for possible adverse settings. > > The preferences window controls surface aspects of the GUI that > were not already controlled by other GUI methods. Yes, but customization buffers control GUI aspects, too. (Besides, your statement is inconsistent with the paragraph I quoted first, above.) I am under the impression that this special dialog contains settings that are specific to the Cocoa port. I believe that the technical layer or revision at which a setting was introduced should not influence the UI. > The modifier key > mappings were also added because they are a notorious point of > varying preferences among OS X users. I'll buy that for the Meta/Option/Command key assignment. This could be handled via the Options menu. > Anyway, the functioning of this facility is already broken by > recent checkins which override the system highlight color and > antialiasing selections. Antialiasing doesn't work any longer for me, the fonts look horrible. How does one turn it back on? How do I find out the system's highlight color via Lisp? > something easy to maintain outside of GNU Emacs itself (e.g. in a > distribution like Aquamacs) because it involves integrated > Objective C code and additional files going into the bundle. I'm happy to write ObjC code - happier actually than writing Carbon code in C--. One thing I am annoyed with is that the Apple Events map has gone - this was an elegant way to integrate events with the standard Emacs event map system. This was important for the Preferences / About Emacs menu items, but also for external interfaces (ODOC events, e.g.) > The desire to keep all GUI interfaces to Emacs similar to one > another is a reasonable one. However, some concessions to > platform convention and user convenience ought to be tolerated on > a case-by- case basis depending on the user-benefit to > obtrusiveness ratio. I was arguing for that 3 or 4 years ago, but the events since have convinced me that we need to cater to two distinct user groups, with two different packages. - D --Apple-Mail-1--194737741 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIFxDCCAn0w ggHmoAMCAQICEEfSZyInpN9bVdFPsdICbiIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MTIwOTIzMDM0OFoXDTA4MTIwODIzMDM0 OFowYjEQMA4GA1UEBBMHUmVpdHRlcjEOMAwGA1UEKhMFRGF2aWQxFjAUBgNVBAMTDURhdmlkIFJl aXR0ZXIxJjAkBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWF2RhdmlkLnJlaXR0ZXJAZ21haWwuY29tMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3 DQEBAQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDIS4kZGULD+CxprkxDnEccAnZ2GQQxfn55aiAPoy5kJ+uLhelaZP4p lgx3Vq8xYK1bjsLepGYp8qzVlHsyQPb6OfvRzrUXHxlJrHME0+Lblx37PBLxGDxc5W8qfZFJpej8 Dk3LUMga8laR9CRghbALoTV3UThUSMqk1cVwTY99KQIDAQABozQwMjAiBgNVHREEGzAZgRdkYXZp ZC5yZWl0dGVyQGdtYWlsLmNvbTAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4GBAKU8XIS6 R/R3Hg6ae5p0i4iUJURq+sDVMX9RGB3Ge5V8oKKglIQGaY03leem65pqICL6mdgX/Px21JoaKVAA 8XITLFVEFHL6BfZ/eePnzNi93rnaNe7hLUwLdGztdYmqN8zF0DOCybL1M1JDB3cTr0XwHJwxziSf oEeENGNETykjMIIDPzCCAqigAwIBAgIBDTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCB0TELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx FTATBgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMRowGAYDVQQKExFUaGF3 dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZzEoMCYGA1UECxMfQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBTZXJ2aWNlcyBEaXZpc2lvbjEk MCIGA1UEAxMbVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIENBMSswKQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhxwZXJz b25hbC1mcmVlbWFpbEB0aGF3dGUuY29tMB4XDTAzMDcxNzAwMDAwMFoXDTEzMDcxNjIzNTk1OVow YjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAq BgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB AQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDEpjxVc1X7TrnKmVoeaMB1BHCd3+n/ox7svc31W/Iadr1/DDph8r9RzgHU 5VAKMNcCY1osiRVwjt3J8CuFWqo/cVbLrzwLB+fxH5E2JCoTzyvV84J3PQO+K/67GD4Hv0CAAmTX p6a7n2XRxSpUhQ9IBH+nttE8YQRAHmQZcmC3+wIDAQABo4GUMIGRMBIGA1UdEwEB/wQIMAYBAf8C AQAwQwYDVR0fBDwwOjA4oDagNIYyaHR0cDovL2NybC50aGF3dGUuY29tL1RoYXd0ZVBlcnNvbmFs RnJlZW1haWxDQS5jcmwwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgEGMCkGA1UdEQQiMCCkHjAcMRowGAYDVQQDExFQcml2 YXRlTGFiZWwyLTEzODANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOBgQBIjNFQg+oLLswNo2asZw9/r6y+whehQ5aU nX9MIbj4Nh+qLZ82L8D0HFAgk3A8/a3hYWLD2ToZfoSxmRsAxRoLgnSeJVCUYsfbJ3FXJY3dqZw5 jowgT2Vfldr394fWxghOrvbqNOUQGls1TXfjViF4gtwhGTXeJLHTHUb/XV9lTzGCAo8wggKLAgEB MHYwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4x LDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBAhBH0mciJ6TfW1XR T7HSAm4iMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgggFvMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcN AQkFMQ8XDTA4MDcxOTE1NTkwN1owIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFGQYrISDoJ8y5VCiszdp9Ao8B5gu MIGFBgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxeDB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3Vs dGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWlu ZyBDQQIQR9JnIiek31tV0U+x0gJuIjCBhwYLKoZIhvcNAQkQAgsxeKB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpB MSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUg UGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIQR9JnIiek31tV0U+x0gJuIjANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQEFAASBgBySl1TPJPRweDzUKAarIoi5/88tGje/kF/eTs1StzR1qZBY7+si8pLo9hFzjVMjSeHn wnWhhqvH+INKito4nmHBazFgPTrXM28MWAUB5ogPwSa1yAPWhZ1CbfldqpkA/NoY5s1dpJGY2rHP 6a5wEUYQyaSYRnMyWNq8jSri/C5kAAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail-1--194737741--