From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Berndl, Klaus" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Emacs setup assistants Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:48:28 +0200 Sender: xemacs-beta-admin@xemacs.org Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1085582614 9964 80.91.224.253 (26 May 2004 14:43:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:43:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "'emacs-devel@gnu.org '" , "'xemacs-beta@xemacs.org '" Original-X-From: xemacs-beta-admin@xemacs.org Wed May 26 16:43:20 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BSzcm-00050E-00 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:43:20 +0200 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org ([199.184.165.135]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BSzcl-0007T3-00 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:43:20 +0200 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.11.6p2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4QEe7o05125; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:40:07 -0400 Original-Received: (from turnbull@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.11.6p2/8.9.1) id i4QEd7d04384 for xemacs-beta-mailman@xemacs.org; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:39:07 -0400 Original-Received: (from mail@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.11.6p2/8.9.1) id i4QEd6S04360 for turnbull@tux.org; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:39:06 -0400 Original-Received: from world1.sdm.de (world1.sdm.de [192.76.162.229]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.11.6p2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4QEd4o04338; Wed, 26 May 2004 10:39:04 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=world1.sdm.de) (helo=world1.sdm.de) by world1.sdm.de (MTA) via esmtp id 1BSyrS-0008BW-HY; Wed, 26 May 2004 15:54:26 +0200 Original-Received: from mucns1.muc.sdm.de ([193.102.180.22]) (helo=mucns1.muc.sdm.de) by world1.sdm.de (MTA) via esmtp id 1BSyrQ-0007jd-7E; Wed, 26 May 2004 15:54:24 +0200 Original-Received: by mucns1.muc.sdm.de (MTA) via esmtp from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=sdmexch1.muc.sdm.de) id 1BSymA-0001bu-CU; Wed, 26 May 2004 15:48:58 +0200 Original-Received: by sdmexch1.muc.sdm.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 26 May 2004 13:48:30 +0200 Original-To: "'Eli Zaretskii '" , "'xemacs-beta-admin@xemacs.org '" , "'Ted Zlatanov '" X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-Mailer: emacs 21.3.50 (via feedmail 8 I) and Blat ver 1.8.9 X-XEmacs-List: beta Errors-To: xemacs-beta-admin@xemacs.org X-BeenThere: xemacs-beta@xemacs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: XEmacs Beta Testers List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta:14849 gmane.emacs.devel:23960 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:23960 >> From: Ted Zlatanov >> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:16:35 -0400 >> >> Power users don't need assistants. >I disagree. Power users don't need assistance in setting up something >that they are already power users at. But when they need to set up >something they never did before, they could use assistance. At least >I do. Me too - i consider myself as a power-user of Emacs and in most cases i would bet that i'm able to find out what i need by using apropos, the info-manual etc... but what i really hate is wasting my time by digging around all the manuals when setting up things could also be offered more simple by a well designed assistant. It's always the same game: There a two takewrs in this game, one is the author of a software (e.g. a complex and powerful emacs-addon, like auctex, semantic, ecb, gnus etc. etc.) and the user of a software (here acting for all the other billions of users of the same software). And one of these two takers must invest time and effort to make this peace of software best usable: If the author desides to offer good manuals and also good assistants then he must invest maybe a lot of time and effort for this but all other users will save a lot of time. On the other hand, if the author of a software wants to save time then all users have to spend a lot of time.... now every one can compute for himself, what is better for all the time available at the world ;-) IMO (X)Emacs should offer a well designed backbone so package-authors (and the core-Emacs-authors too) can offer assistants so user's live will become easier... The live of Emacs-newbies is hard enough ;-) Klaus