From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Ludwig, Mark" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: Is Emacs very alive, active and improving? Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:21:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87r4ddo4yp.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1377867664 23342 80.91.229.3 (30 Aug 2013 13:01:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 13:01:04 +0000 (UTC) To: Emanuel Berg , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 30 15:01:06 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VFOK1-0002ec-U5 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 15:01:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50090 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VFOK1-0000h7-Ij for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 09:01:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49742) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VFOJW-0000Z5-06 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 09:00:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VFOJP-0001Yt-Mm for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 09:00:33 -0400 Original-Received: from usslmhub002.ugs.com ([134.244.32.85]:48613 helo=ugs.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VFO1h-0004jh-VL for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 08:42:10 -0400 Original-Received: from USSLMMBX003.net.plm.eds.com ([169.254.2.48]) by USSLMHUB002.net.plm.eds.com ([134.244.32.85]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 07:21:17 -0500 Thread-Topic: Is Emacs very alive, active and improving? Thread-Index: AQHOpDlIHkNe+j8YwESbUX61qyqSJpmtqSDw In-Reply-To: <87r4ddo4yp.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [134.244.20.130] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Windows 7 or 8 X-Received-From: 134.244.32.85 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:93175 Archived-At: > From: Emanuel Berg, Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:55 PM >=20 > wgreenhouse@riseup.net (W. Greenhouse) writes: >=20 > > I don't think Google Trends is an accurate measure of how many > > people are using Emacs, because Emacs is largely > > self-documenting, not just through the Info manuals but also > > from the dynamically generated documentation from Elisp programs > > themselves. >=20 > I've heard that Emacs is self-documenting numerous times, and, if > this refers to the docstrings of Elisp functions, I have to say > "self-documenting" is stretching the truth. The docstrings are a > handy way to provide documentation, and the Emacs access to that > documentation is provided instantly upon evaluation of the defun > (of if it is some other thing: a variable, perhaps). This is all > well and good, but the documentation has to be written > nonetheless, like any other documentation. You need to remember that the term "self-documenting" was applied to EMACS by RMS in the late '70s. At the time, it was innovative. Consider that EMACS back then was a "real-time display editor" in a world in which the vast majority of computing was being done on punch cards! Looking at Emacs today, with things like javadoc, as others have pointed out, calling it "self-documenting" invokes a yawn as much as anything else -- but that's what it means. I also think the point of view for the term "self-documenting" is from the "outside looking in." When I started using EMACS in college in 1980, I remember being amazed and incredibly impressed. (I imagine no college student would have any such reaction today, because the rest of computing has caught up!)=20 Cheers, Mark