From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Reuben Thomas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#8492: 23.3; Time to use a different binding for completion? Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 19:28:08 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87zknuhxl4.fsf@sc3d.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1303324660 24652 80.91.229.12 (20 Apr 2011 18:37:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 18:37:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 8492@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 20 20:37:36 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QCcHN-0005wm-3b for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:37:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38593 helo=lists2.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QCcHM-0001wG-MI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 14:37:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39508) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QCcHJ-0001vz-IM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 14:37:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QCcHI-0004TR-Ct for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 14:37:29 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:45567) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QCcHI-0004TN-9y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 14:37:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QCc98-0000WG-BT; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 14:29:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 18:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 8492 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 8492-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B8492.13033240971931 (code B ref 8492); Wed, 20 Apr 2011 18:29:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 8492) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Apr 2011 18:28:17 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QCc8P-0000V6-JS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 14:28:17 -0400 Original-Received: from exprod7og104.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.161]) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QCc8M-0000Us-Ih for 8492@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 14:28:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pw0-f50.google.com ([209.85.160.50]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob104.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTa8luKNWDCCTnQ/qrMziaNDZGpsmEgtY@postini.com; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:28:14 PDT Original-Received: by mail-pw0-f50.google.com with SMTP id 3so534875pwi.9 for <8492@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.68.21.131 with SMTP id v3mr10909358pbe.65.1303324088080; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.68.59.198 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:28:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 14:29:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:45892 Archived-At: On 20 April 2011 16:49, Drew Adams wrote: >> Currently, the "usable default" is ESC TAB. >> It's a bit longwinded, so it'd be good to find a better solution. > > It's not very longwinded. It's two keystrokes rather than a two-key chord for a function which users these days expect to use frequently. >=A0It was used by many perfectly capable and fast > programmers, including the one who wrote Emacs practically > overnight) and gcc. I'd be interested to know whether that's actually true, or whether they simply didn't use it. > ;-) =A0Likewise `C-M-i' - not very longwinded, and long available > for this. Takes two hands. > And anyway it doesn't really matter all that much how longwinded a _defau= lt_ > binding is. It does. If the letter 'e' were bound by default to "ESC C-M x 5 a" I wouldn't use Emacs. The point is that there are features that are relatively new which users now expect. Syntax coloring is another which went from optional (largely for performance reasons, IIRC) to on-by-default, but of course it doesn't really need keybindings. > So your logic is that simply because you cannot find an available key you= want > to complicate the behavior of the command so that it acts, in effect, as > multiple commands depending on the context. That may work: we already have plenty of context-dependent keystrokes, which are often called "electric". Tab is, as even you've noted, already overloaded. Having said that, no key binding is better than a clever key binding. Some uses of completion perhaps don't need a key (as for example many uses of code completion, which in other IDEs pop up a list of completions by default). --=20 http://rrt.sc3d.org