From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Reuben Thomas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#8492: 23.3; Time to use a different binding for completion? Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:54:56 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87zknuhxl4.fsf@sc3d.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1303301260 10312 80.91.229.12 (20 Apr 2011 12:07:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:07:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 8492@debbugs.gnu.org To: "Andrew W. Nosenko" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 20 14:07:36 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QCWBz-0007SX-Ve for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 14:07:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47490 helo=lists2.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QCWBz-0004kJ-Ei for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 08:07:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:57578) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QCWBt-0004k3-15 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 08:07:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QCWBr-00082L-J2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 08:07:28 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:50794) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QCWBr-00082G-He for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 08:07:27 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QCW0n-00008B-Qo; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:56:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:56:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 8492 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 8492-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B8492.1303300507440 (code B ref 8492); Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:56:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 8492) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Apr 2011 11:55:07 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QCVzu-000071-Al for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:55:06 -0400 Original-Received: from exprod7og105.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.163]) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QCVzr-00006Y-Hz for 8492@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:55:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pw0-f45.google.com ([209.85.160.45]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob105.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTa7JkF6j+wfNplREvTd550wqGw9L7odW@postini.com; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:55:03 PDT Original-Received: by pwj6 with SMTP id 6so431124pwj.32 for <8492@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.68.38.102 with SMTP id f6mr10829813pbk.199.1303300496207; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.68.59.198 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:54:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:56:01 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:45880 Archived-At: On 19 April 2011 11:52, Andrew W. Nosenko wrot= e: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 20:26, Reuben Thomas wrote: >> Emacs binds various completion functions to M-Tab, which is already used >> by many window managers, including Compiz and Metacity, i.e. the WMs one >> is likely to use on a modern GNU system, for switching between open >> windows. > > Unable to say anything about Compiz, but Metacity binds nothing to > M-Tab (moreover, it binds nothing to Meta-combinations at all). =A0For > switching between windows it uses Alt-Tab. I'm sorry, I was imprecise. > Another problem is that in many Linux distros Meta and Alt bound the > same physical key by default. =A0But they may be easy splited using > keyboard preferences. This is the problem: unusable defaults. I'm asking if we can have a usable default setting. One could argue that it should be X's defaults that are fixed, but that seems rather less likely to happen. So it seems there are three options: 0. Do nothing, arguing that users can always configure things so they work. That would be a pity, as for every user who has the knowledge and patience (remember also advanced users who want to use Emacs on a new account on a new machine), there will be several who just give up, so that either they don't use Emacs, or they find it less powerful than it is. 1. Convince X packagers to bind Meta and Alt to different keys. That's a hard sell, though the purist in me does agree that window-manager operations should not use a key that is commonly used for application shortcuts. (In the past I've made my WM use the Windows key for its bindings, which seems rather more logical, but that's a change which is not going to stick as a default.) 2. Add a default binding for completion that works with Meta & Alt on the same key. (No need to remove the existing binding.) The problems with simply using Tab have already been expounded, though that's a nice option to have (especially if you're not a Python programmer!). --=20 http://rrt.sc3d.org