* The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
@ 2020-12-03 18:15 Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-03 20:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
` (4 more replies)
0 siblings, 5 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Alan Mackenzie @ 2020-12-03 18:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
Hello, Emacs.
I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
emacs-27 branches.
When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
That's a massive slowdown. Does anybody know why this is happening?
Should I raise a bug report?
The benchmark I run is this:
(defmacro time-it (&rest forms)
"Time the running of a sequence of forms using `float-time'.
Call like this: \"M-: (time-it (foo ...) (bar ...) ...)\"."
`(let ((start (float-time)))
,@forms
(- (float-time) start)))
(defun time-scroll (&optional arg)
(interactive "P")
(message "%s"
(time-it
(condition-case nil
(while t
(if arg (scroll-down) (scroll-up))
(sit-for 0))
(error nil)))))
On a freshly loaded buffer, do M-: (time-scroll).
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-03 18:15 The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch Alan Mackenzie
@ 2020-12-03 20:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 9:13 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-03 20:59 ` Mattias Engdegård
` (3 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-03 20:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Mackenzie; +Cc: emacs-devel
> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 18:15:30 +0000
> From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
>
> I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
> emacs-27 branches.
>
> When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
> master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
Optimized builds or unoptimized ones?
In unoptimized builds I get almost no difference: Emacs 28 is about 4%
slower than Emacs 27. And the profiles look almost identical.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-03 18:15 The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-03 20:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-03 20:59 ` Mattias Engdegård
2020-12-04 9:24 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-04 10:46 ` Alan Third
2020-12-03 21:09 ` Ergus
` (2 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 2 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Mattias Engdegård @ 2020-12-03 20:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Mackenzie; +Cc: emacs-devel
3 dec. 2020 kl. 19.15 skrev Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>:
> I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
> emacs-27 branches.
>
> When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
> master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
Confirmed on macOS (Mojave).
> That's a massive slowdown. Does anybody know why this is happening?
> Should I raise a bug report?
Please do!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-03 18:15 The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-03 20:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-03 20:59 ` Mattias Engdegård
@ 2020-12-03 21:09 ` Ergus
2020-12-04 9:19 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-03 22:17 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 9:59 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
4 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Ergus @ 2020-12-03 21:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Mackenzie; +Cc: emacs-devel
On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 06:15:30PM +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>Hello, Emacs.
>
>I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
>emacs-27 branches.
>
>When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
>master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
>
>That's a massive slowdown. Does anybody know why this is happening?
>Should I raise a bug report?
>
>The benchmark I run is this:
>
>(defmacro time-it (&rest forms)
> "Time the running of a sequence of forms using `float-time'.
>Call like this: \"M-: (time-it (foo ...) (bar ...) ...)\"."
> `(let ((start (float-time)))
> ,@forms
> (- (float-time) start)))
>
>(defun time-scroll (&optional arg)
> (interactive "P")
> (message "%s"
> (time-it
> (condition-case nil
> (while t
> (if arg (scroll-down) (scroll-up))
> (sit-for 0))
> (error nil)))))
>
>On a freshly loaded buffer, do M-: (time-scroll).
>
>--
>Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
>
Hi Alan:
I have observed the slowdown, but haven't have time to profile it
properly. Maybe adding to your time-scroll function (profile-start 'cpu)
just before and (profiler-stop) at the end to see the profile-report
could provide useful information.
The other thing I would check may be to compare the values of gcs-done
in both cases.
Best,
Ergus
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-03 18:15 The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch Alan Mackenzie
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2020-12-03 21:09 ` Ergus
@ 2020-12-03 22:17 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 9:04 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-04 9:59 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
4 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2020-12-03 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Mackenzie; +Cc: emacs-devel
On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 18:15:30 +0000 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
> Hello, Emacs.
>
> I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
> emacs-27 branches.
>
> When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
> master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
Hm, this is odd: I just ran your benchmark on src/xdisp.c (starting
Emacs with -Q, both configured with CFLAGS='-Og -g3') and got vastly
different timings than you did:
master: 21.785817861557007
emacs-27: 61.3885281085968
This is with:
GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 42, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.17,
cairo version 1.17.3) of 2020-11-21
emacs-repository-version: "0a8cd0116204354e95fbb4ebde64c58123502aa2"
and
GNU Emacs 27.1.50 (build 18, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.17)
of 2020-11-21
emacs-repository-version: "3ceee398192e312faa3ea073365c49bcce9ef61b"
Steve Berman
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-03 22:17 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-04 9:04 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-04 9:32 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 14:55 ` Arthur Miller
0 siblings, 2 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Alan Mackenzie @ 2020-12-04 9:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen Berman; +Cc: emacs-devel
Hello, Steve.
On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 23:17:18 +0100, Stephen Berman wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 18:15:30 +0000 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
> > Hello, Emacs.
> > I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
> > emacs-27 branches.
> > When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
> > master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
> Hm, this is odd: I just ran your benchmark on src/xdisp.c (starting
> Emacs with -Q, both configured with CFLAGS='-Og -g3') and got vastly
> different timings than you did:
> master: 21.785817861557007
> emacs-27: 61.3885281085968
Maybe the emacs-27 is built without optimisation for debugging.
> This is with:
> GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 42, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.17,
> cairo version 1.17.3) of 2020-11-21
> emacs-repository-version: "0a8cd0116204354e95fbb4ebde64c58123502aa2"
> and
> GNU Emacs 27.1.50 (build 18, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.17)
> of 2020-11-21
> emacs-repository-version: "3ceee398192e312faa3ea073365c49bcce9ef61b"
> Steve Berman
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-03 20:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-04 9:13 ` Alan Mackenzie
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Alan Mackenzie @ 2020-12-04 9:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel
Hello, Eli.
On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 22:17:33 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 18:15:30 +0000
> > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
> > I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
> > emacs-27 branches.
> > When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
> > master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
I forgot to say, I was using the same build of the same CC Mode version
on both.
> Optimized builds or unoptimized ones?
Both optimised builds.
> In unoptimized builds I get almost no difference: Emacs 28 is about 4%
> slower than Emacs 27. And the profiles look almost identical.
It's strange. But soon after I posted my post, I couldn't see the slow
34s timing any more. But other people have concurred with the problem
report.
There's something strange happening.
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-03 21:09 ` Ergus
@ 2020-12-04 9:19 ` Alan Mackenzie
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Alan Mackenzie @ 2020-12-04 9:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ergus; +Cc: emacs-devel
Hello, Ergus.
On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 22:09:19 +0100, Ergus wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 06:15:30PM +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> >Hello, Emacs.
> >I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
> >emacs-27 branches.
> >When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
> >master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
> >That's a massive slowdown. Does anybody know why this is happening?
> >Should I raise a bug report?
> >The benchmark I run is this:
> >(defmacro time-it (&rest forms)
> > "Time the running of a sequence of forms using `float-time'.
> >Call like this: \"M-: (time-it (foo ...) (bar ...) ...)\"."
> > `(let ((start (float-time)))
> > ,@forms
> > (- (float-time) start)))
> >(defun time-scroll (&optional arg)
> > (interactive "P")
> > (message "%s"
> > (time-it
> > (condition-case nil
> > (while t
> > (if arg (scroll-down) (scroll-up))
> > (sit-for 0))
> > (error nil)))))
> >On a freshly loaded buffer, do M-: (time-scroll).
> >--
> >Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
> Hi Alan:
> I have observed the slowdown, but haven't have time to profile it
> properly. Maybe adding to your time-scroll function (profile-start 'cpu)
> just before and (profiler-stop) at the end to see the profile-report
> could provide useful information.
Now that I've reported the problem, I don't see it any more. I just see
the 22s timing all the time. Otherwise I would raise the bug report.
> The other thing I would check may be to compare the values of gcs-done
> in both cases.
Thanks! I didn't know about that variable.
> Best,
> Ergus
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-03 20:59 ` Mattias Engdegård
@ 2020-12-04 9:24 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-04 10:46 ` Alan Third
1 sibling, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Alan Mackenzie @ 2020-12-04 9:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mattias Engdegård; +Cc: emacs-devel
Hello, Mattias.
On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 21:59:39 +0100, Mattias Engdegård wrote:
> 3 dec. 2020 kl. 19.15 skrev Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>:
> > I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
> > emacs-27 branches.
> > When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
> > master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
> Confirmed on macOS (Mojave).
> > That's a massive slowdown. Does anybody know why this is happening?
> > Should I raise a bug report?
> Please do!
Except I'm not seeing the slow timing any more, no matter what I try it
on. I saw it all the time before I reported it. So I don't feel right
in raising a bug report.
But you've seen the problem, so have one or two other people. Something
wierd appears to be happening.
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 9:04 ` Alan Mackenzie
@ 2020-12-04 9:32 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 9:53 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-04 11:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 14:55 ` Arthur Miller
1 sibling, 2 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2020-12-04 9:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Mackenzie; +Cc: emacs-devel
On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 09:04:49 +0000 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
> Hello, Steve.
>
> On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 23:17:18 +0100, Stephen Berman wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 18:15:30 +0000 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
>
>> > Hello, Emacs.
>
>> > I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
>> > emacs-27 branches.
>
>> > When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
>> > master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
>
>> Hm, this is odd: I just ran your benchmark on src/xdisp.c (starting
>> Emacs with -Q, both configured with CFLAGS='-Og -g3') and got vastly
>> different timings than you did:
>
>> master: 21.785817861557007
>> emacs-27: 61.3885281085968
>
> Maybe the emacs-27 is built without optimisation for debugging.
As noted above, I build both master and emacs-27 with CFLAGS='-Og -g3'.
Given that, is such a difference still expected? Eli wrote:
"In unoptimized builds I get almost no difference: Emacs 28 is about 4%
slower than Emacs 27", which also contrasts sharply with my timings.
Steve Berman
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 9:32 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-04 9:53 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-04 10:14 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 11:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Alan Mackenzie @ 2020-12-04 9:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen Berman; +Cc: emacs-devel
Hello, Steve.
On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 10:32:16 +0100, Stephen Berman wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 09:04:49 +0000 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 23:17:18 +0100, Stephen Berman wrote:
> >> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 18:15:30 +0000 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
> >> > Hello, Emacs.
> >> > I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
> >> > emacs-27 branches.
> >> > When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
> >> > master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
> >> Hm, this is odd: I just ran your benchmark on src/xdisp.c (starting
> >> Emacs with -Q, both configured with CFLAGS='-Og -g3') and got vastly
> >> different timings than you did:
> >> master: 21.785817861557007
> >> emacs-27: 61.3885281085968
> > Maybe the emacs-27 is built without optimisation for debugging.
> As noted above, I build both master and emacs-27 with CFLAGS='-Og -g3'.
Apologies. I hadn't read your post properly.
> Given that, is such a difference still expected? Eli wrote:
> "In unoptimized builds I get almost no difference: Emacs 28 is about 4%
> slower than Emacs 27", which also contrasts sharply with my timings.
I can't understand why you're getting such a slowdown in your emacs-27.
You've presumably got a modern machine, with plenty of cores and plenty
of RAM, so it shouldn't be swapping, or some other process taking up the
processor.
There's something very strange happening.
> Steve Berman
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-03 18:15 The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch Alan Mackenzie
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2020-12-03 22:17 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-04 9:59 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-09 4:23 ` andres.ramirez
4 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-04 9:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Mackenzie; +Cc: emacs-devel
[Apparently this email, which I sent a few hours ago, did not reach the
mailing list. I apologize if you receive it twice.]
>
> I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
> emacs-27 branches.
>
> When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
> master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
>
> That's a massive slowdown. Does anybody know why this is happening?
> Should I raise a bug report?
>
> The benchmark I run is this:
>
> (defmacro time-it (&rest forms)
> "Time the running of a sequence of forms using `float-time'.
> Call like this: \"M-: (time-it (foo ...) (bar ...) ...)\"."
> `(let ((start (float-time)))
> ,@forms
> (- (float-time) start)))
>
> (defun time-scroll (&optional arg)
> (interactive "P")
> (message "%s"
> (time-it
> (condition-case nil
> (while t
> (if arg (scroll-down) (scroll-up))
> (sit-for 0))
> (error nil)))))
>
> On a freshly loaded buffer, do M-: (time-scroll).
>
Did you use emacs -Q? What is your platform?
Out of curiosity, I tried your benchmark on my computer (Debian GNU/Linux)
for the following Emacs versions. I ran the benchmark four times for each
version, and the results were stable for each version:
Emacs 23.4.1: 5.2s (that's not a typo: five seconds)
Emacs 24.5.1: 28.2s
Emacs 25.2.2: 27.6s
Emacs 26.3: 16.9s
Emacs 27.1: 18.5s
Emacs 28.0.50: 19.5s
I see a slowdown between 27 and 28, but not a massive one.
FWIW, here are the results of that benchmark after disabling
global-font-lock-mode:
Emacs 23.4.1: 1.1s
Emacs 24.5.1: 1.8s
Emacs 25.2.2: 1.8s
Emacs 26.3: 3.0s
Emacs 27.1: 3.3s
Emacs 28.0.50: 3.3s
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 9:53 ` Alan Mackenzie
@ 2020-12-04 10:14 ` Stephen Berman
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2020-12-04 10:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Mackenzie; +Cc: emacs-devel
On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 09:53:40 +0000 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
> Hello, Steve.
>
> On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 10:32:16 +0100, Stephen Berman wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 09:04:49 +0000 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
>> > On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 23:17:18 +0100, Stephen Berman wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 18:15:30 +0000 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
>
>> >> > Hello, Emacs.
>
>> >> > I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
>> >> > emacs-27 branches.
>
>> >> > When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
>> >> > master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
>
>> >> Hm, this is odd: I just ran your benchmark on src/xdisp.c (starting
>> >> Emacs with -Q, both configured with CFLAGS='-Og -g3') and got vastly
>> >> different timings than you did:
>
>> >> master: 21.785817861557007
>> >> emacs-27: 61.3885281085968
>
>> > Maybe the emacs-27 is built without optimisation for debugging.
>
>> As noted above, I build both master and emacs-27 with CFLAGS='-Og -g3'.
>
> Apologies. I hadn't read your post properly.
>
>> Given that, is such a difference still expected? Eli wrote:
>> "In unoptimized builds I get almost no difference: Emacs 28 is about 4%
>> slower than Emacs 27", which also contrasts sharply with my timings.
>
> I can't understand why you're getting such a slowdown in your emacs-27.
> You've presumably got a modern machine, with plenty of cores and plenty
> of RAM, so it shouldn't be swapping, or some other process taking up the
> processor.
The CPU is an i7-8700 with 6 cores (12 threads) and 16 GB RAM. I ran
the benchmarks twice in sequence, first using xdisp.c from master and
then using xdisp.c from emacs-27, with nearly identical results (with
the latter the timings were insignificantly faster, but the differences
between the runs from master and those from emacs-27 were the same).
> There's something very strange happening.
Indeed.
Steve Berman
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-03 20:59 ` Mattias Engdegård
2020-12-04 9:24 ` Alan Mackenzie
@ 2020-12-04 10:46 ` Alan Third
2020-12-04 11:07 ` Mattias Engdegård
1 sibling, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Alan Third @ 2020-12-04 10:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mattias Engdegård; +Cc: Alan Mackenzie, emacs-devel
On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 09:59:39PM +0100, Mattias Engdegård wrote:
> 3 dec. 2020 kl. 19.15 skrev Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>:
>
> > I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
> > emacs-27 branches.
> >
> > When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
> > master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
>
> Confirmed on macOS (Mojave).
Watch out with the NS port: drawing to the screen is slower in Emacs
28 than Emacs 27, but is less likely to produce graphical glitches.
Obviously that doesn't explain what Alan's seeing since he's not using NS.
--
Alan Third
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 10:46 ` Alan Third
@ 2020-12-04 11:07 ` Mattias Engdegård
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Mattias Engdegård @ 2020-12-04 11:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Third; +Cc: Alan Mackenzie, emacs-devel
4 dec. 2020 kl. 11.46 skrev Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org>:
>> Confirmed on macOS (Mojave).
>
> Watch out with the NS port: drawing to the screen is slower in Emacs
> 28 than Emacs 27, but is less likely to produce graphical glitches.
Thank you, I'd forgotten about that. This fits the rough date of the regression as well.
Right, there is nothing to see here then.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 9:32 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 9:53 ` Alan Mackenzie
@ 2020-12-04 11:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 12:54 ` Stephen Berman
1 sibling, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-04 11:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen Berman; +Cc: acm, emacs-devel
> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 10:32:16 +0100
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> As noted above, I build both master and emacs-27 with CFLAGS='-Og -g3'.
> Given that, is such a difference still expected?
No. But if you see this consistently, please produce and post the
profile of each of the versions, and let's take it from there.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 11:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-04 12:54 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 13:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2020-12-04 12:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: acm, emacs-devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 715 bytes --]
On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 13:45:02 +0200 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
>> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 10:32:16 +0100
>> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
>>
>> As noted above, I build both master and emacs-27 with CFLAGS='-Og -g3'.
>> Given that, is such a difference still expected?
>
> No. But if you see this consistently, please produce and post the
> profile of each of the versions, and let's take it from there.
Since the builds I ran the benchmark on were about two weeks old, I
updated both branches now, rebuilt and ran the benchmark again, and got
the same results: ~21 seconds on master, ~61 seconds on emacs-27.
Profiles attached.
Steve Berman
[-- Attachment #2: profile-27 --]
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Automatic GC 8576 40%
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 12:54 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-04 13:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 13:53 ` Stephen Berman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-04 13:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen Berman; +Cc: acm, emacs-devel
> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
> Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 13:54:06 +0100
>
> >> As noted above, I build both master and emacs-27 with CFLAGS='-Og -g3'.
> >> Given that, is such a difference still expected?
> >
> > No. But if you see this consistently, please produce and post the
> > profile of each of the versions, and let's take it from there.
>
> Since the builds I ran the benchmark on were about two weeks old, I
> updated both branches now, rebuilt and ran the benchmark again, and got
> the same results: ~21 seconds on master, ~61 seconds on emacs-27.
> Profiles attached.
Thanks. It looks like everything is just two to 3 times slower in
Emacs 28 on your system, which is definitely not my experience.
Are you sure all the Lisp files are byte-compiled? What happens if
you "make bootstrap" in both branches, and then try again?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 13:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-04 13:53 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 14:05 ` Stephen Berman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2020-12-04 13:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: acm, emacs-devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1384 bytes --]
On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 15:28:06 +0200 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
>> Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 13:54:06 +0100
>>
>> >> As noted above, I build both master and emacs-27 with CFLAGS='-Og -g3'.
>> >> Given that, is such a difference still expected?
>> >
>> > No. But if you see this consistently, please produce and post the
>> > profile of each of the versions, and let's take it from there.
>>
>> Since the builds I ran the benchmark on were about two weeks old, I
>> updated both branches now, rebuilt and ran the benchmark again, and got
>> the same results: ~21 seconds on master, ~61 seconds on emacs-27.
>> Profiles attached.
>
> Thanks. It looks like everything is just two to 3 times slower in
> Emacs 28 on your system, which is definitely not my experience.
^^
27
> Are you sure all the Lisp files are byte-compiled? What happens if
> you "make bootstrap" in both branches, and then try again?
I just rebuilt emacs-27 with "make bootstrap", reran the benchmark, and
it took ~60 seconds, about a second faster than the previous
non-bootstrapped build. The profile is similar to the previous one from
emacs-27, but I've attached for your perusal anyway. I'll bootstrap
master too and run the benchmark there again.
Steve Berman
[-- Attachment #2: profile-27-bootstrap --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 77157 bytes --]
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 13:53 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-04 14:05 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 15:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2020-12-04 14:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: acm, emacs-devel
On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 14:53:32 +0100 Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 15:28:06 +0200 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>>> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
>>> Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>>> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 13:54:06 +0100
>>>
>>> >> As noted above, I build both master and emacs-27 with CFLAGS='-Og -g3'.
>>> >> Given that, is such a difference still expected?
>>> >
>>> > No. But if you see this consistently, please produce and post the
>>> > profile of each of the versions, and let's take it from there.
>>>
>>> Since the builds I ran the benchmark on were about two weeks old, I
>>> updated both branches now, rebuilt and ran the benchmark again, and got
>>> the same results: ~21 seconds on master, ~61 seconds on emacs-27.
>>> Profiles attached.
>>
>> Thanks. It looks like everything is just two to 3 times slower in
>> Emacs 28 on your system, which is definitely not my experience.
> ^^
> 27
>
>> Are you sure all the Lisp files are byte-compiled? What happens if
>> you "make bootstrap" in both branches, and then try again?
>
> I just rebuilt emacs-27 with "make bootstrap", reran the benchmark, and
> it took ~60 seconds, about a second faster than the previous
> non-bootstrapped build. The profile is similar to the previous one from
> emacs-27, but I've attached for your perusal anyway. I'll bootstrap
> master too and run the benchmark there again.
On freshly bootstrapped master the benchmark took the same time as
before, ~21 seconds, and the profile looks pretty much the same, so I
haven't attached it, but will send it if you want to see it.
Steve Berman
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 9:04 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-04 9:32 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-04 14:55 ` Arthur Miller
2020-12-04 15:00 ` Arthur Miller
1 sibling, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Arthur Miller @ 2020-12-04 14:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Mackenzie; +Cc: Stephen Berman, emacs-devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1452 bytes --]
Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:
> Hello, Steve.
>
> On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 23:17:18 +0100, Stephen Berman wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 18:15:30 +0000 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
>
>> > Hello, Emacs.
>
>> > I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
>> > emacs-27 branches.
>
>> > When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
>> > master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
>
>> Hm, this is odd: I just ran your benchmark on src/xdisp.c (starting
>> Emacs with -Q, both configured with CFLAGS='-Og -g3') and got vastly
>> different timings than you did:
>
>> master: 21.785817861557007
>> emacs-27: 61.3885281085968
>
> Maybe the emacs-27 is built without optimisation for debugging.
>
>> This is with:
>
>> GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 42, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.17,
>> cairo version 1.17.3) of 2020-11-21
>> emacs-repository-version: "0a8cd0116204354e95fbb4ebde64c58123502aa2"
>
>> and
>
>> GNU Emacs 27.1.50 (build 18, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.17)
>> of 2020-11-21
>> emacs-repository-version: "3ceee398192e312faa3ea073365c49bcce9ef61b"
>
>> Steve Berman
On my computer "stock" build from master (28) and 27.1 from Arch repo are at about
same speed. I even posted on Reddit like two days ago.
You can see in screenshots, image 1 and 3 are "stock" versions, 27.1 and
28. Image 2 is my own configured build (no gtk and some other stuff).
[-- Attachment #2: emacs-1201-1.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 91277 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #3: emacs-1201-3.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 95747 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #4: emacs-1201-2.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 95068 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 14:55 ` Arthur Miller
@ 2020-12-04 15:00 ` Arthur Miller
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Arthur Miller @ 2020-12-04 15:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Mackenzie; +Cc: Stephen Berman, emacs-devel
Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@live.com> writes:
> Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:
>
>> Hello, Steve.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 23:17:18 +0100, Stephen Berman wrote:
>>> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 18:15:30 +0000 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
>>
>>> > Hello, Emacs.
>>
>>> > I've got pretty much up to date copies of both the master and the
>>> > emacs-27 branches.
>>
>>> > When I run my customary benchmark (see below) on master's src/xdisp.c in
>>> > master, it's taking around 34s. On emacs-27, it's taking 22s.
>>
>>> Hm, this is odd: I just ran your benchmark on src/xdisp.c (starting
>>> Emacs with -Q, both configured with CFLAGS='-Og -g3') and got vastly
>>> different timings than you did:
>>
>>> master: 21.785817861557007
>>> emacs-27: 61.3885281085968
>>
>> Maybe the emacs-27 is built without optimisation for debugging.
>>
>>> This is with:
>>
>>> GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 42, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.17,
>>> cairo version 1.17.3) of 2020-11-21
>>> emacs-repository-version: "0a8cd0116204354e95fbb4ebde64c58123502aa2"
>>
>>> and
>>
>>> GNU Emacs 27.1.50 (build 18, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.17)
>>> of 2020-11-21
>>> emacs-repository-version: "3ceee398192e312faa3ea073365c49bcce9ef61b"
>>
>>> Steve Berman
> On my computer "stock" build from master (28) and 27.1 from Arch repo are at about
> same speed. I even posted on Reddit like two days ago.
>
> You can see in screenshots, image 1 and 3 are "stock" versions, 27.1 and
> 28. Image 2 is my own configured build (no gtk and some other stuff).
Sorry, I saw later mails and realized you were talking about benchmark;
thought you were talking about the startup :-).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 14:05 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-04 15:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 16:03 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 19:27 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
0 siblings, 2 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-04 15:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen Berman; +Cc: acm, emacs-devel
> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
> Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 15:05:54 +0100
>
> > I just rebuilt emacs-27 with "make bootstrap", reran the benchmark, and
> > it took ~60 seconds, about a second faster than the previous
> > non-bootstrapped build. The profile is similar to the previous one from
> > emacs-27, but I've attached for your perusal anyway. I'll bootstrap
> > master too and run the benchmark there again.
>
> On freshly bootstrapped master the benchmark took the same time as
> before, ~21 seconds, and the profile looks pretty much the same, so I
> haven't attached it, but will send it if you want to see it.
Thanks. This is very strange. What are the build options and the
features in each build? are they identical?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 15:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-04 16:03 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 16:28 ` Óscar Fuentes
` (3 more replies)
2020-12-04 19:27 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
1 sibling, 4 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2020-12-04 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: acm, emacs-devel
On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 17:51:03 +0200 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
>> Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 15:05:54 +0100
>>
>> > I just rebuilt emacs-27 with "make bootstrap", reran the benchmark, and
>> > it took ~60 seconds, about a second faster than the previous
>> > non-bootstrapped build. The profile is similar to the previous one from
>> > emacs-27, but I've attached for your perusal anyway. I'll bootstrap
>> > master too and run the benchmark there again.
>>
>> On freshly bootstrapped master the benchmark took the same time as
>> before, ~21 seconds, and the profile looks pretty much the same, so I
>> haven't attached it, but will send it if you want to see it.
>
> Thanks. This is very strange. What are the build options and the
> features in each build? are they identical?
emacs-27:
system-configuration-options
"'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
system-configuration-features
"XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL
GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11
XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP"
master:
system-configuration-options
"--with-xwidgets 'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
system-configuration-features
"XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY
INOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2"
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 16:03 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-04 16:28 ` Óscar Fuentes
2020-12-04 18:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 16:49 ` Stefan Monnier
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Óscar Fuentes @ 2020-12-04 16:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net> writes:
> emacs-27:
>
> system-configuration-options
> "'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
>
> system-configuration-features
> "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL
> GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11
> XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP"
>
> master:
>
> system-configuration-options
> "--with-xwidgets 'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
>
> system-configuration-features
> "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY
> INOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
> GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2"
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but overriding CFLAGS means that gcc
compiles with default optimization level, wich is -O0, hence you are
comparing unoptimized builds, right? In that case, a tiny change on some
often-used macro or function can make a big difference.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 16:03 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 16:28 ` Óscar Fuentes
@ 2020-12-04 16:49 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-05 14:04 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
[not found] ` <837dpxedmz.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-12-04 17:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
3 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2020-12-04 16:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen Berman; +Cc: acm, Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel
> system-configuration-features
> "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL
> GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11
> XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP"
[...]
> system-configuration-features
> "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY
> INOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
> GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2"
Hmm... so in Emacs-28, "you" removed XFT and GMP and replaced them with
CAIRO and XWIDGETS.
I doubt GMP and XWIDGETS make any difference, but maybe XFT or CAIRO
have something to do with the difference.
It might be worth fiddling with `--with(out)-xft` and
`--with(out)-cairo` to see if you can get closer to the origin of
the difference.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
[not found] ` <837dpxedmz.fsf@gnu.org>
@ 2020-12-04 17:03 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 17:59 ` Stephen Berman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2020-12-04 17:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: acm, Stefan Monnier, emacs-devel
On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 18:31:48 +0200 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
>> Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 17:03:00 +0100
>>
>> > Thanks. This is very strange. What are the build options and the
>> > features in each build? are they identical?
>>
>> emacs-27:
>>
>> system-configuration-options
>> "'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
>>
>> system-configuration-features
>> "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL
>> GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11
>> XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP"
>>
>> master:
>>
>> system-configuration-options
>> "--with-xwidgets 'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
>>
>> system-configuration-features
>> "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY
>> INOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
>> GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2"
>
> Could Cairo be the factor here? Emacs 27 was built without it.
On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 11:49:25 -0500 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
> Hmm... so in Emacs-28, "you" removed XFT and GMP and replaced them with
> CAIRO and XWIDGETS.
>
> I doubt GMP and XWIDGETS make any difference, but maybe XFT or CAIRO
> have something to do with the difference.
>
> It might be worth fiddling with `--with(out)-xft` and
> `--with(out)-cairo` to see if you can get closer to the origin of
> the difference.
I can try that, but since I used the default configuration features,
that suggests that those who got no difference between emacs-27 and
master with the benchmark, or where emacs-27 was even faster, built
emacs-27 --with-cairo and --without-xft. Is that the case?
Steve Berman
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 16:03 ` Stephen Berman
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
[not found] ` <837dpxedmz.fsf@gnu.org>
@ 2020-12-04 17:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
3 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-04 17:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen Berman; +Cc: acm, emacs-devel
> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
> Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 17:03:00 +0100
>
> > Thanks. This is very strange. What are the build options and the
> > features in each build? are they identical?
>
> emacs-27:
>
> system-configuration-options
> "'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
>
> system-configuration-features
> "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL
> GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11
> XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP"
>
> master:
>
> system-configuration-options
> "--with-xwidgets 'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
>
> system-configuration-features
> "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY
> INOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
> GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2"
Could Cairo be the factor here? Emacs 27 was built without it.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 17:03 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-04 17:59 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 20:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2020-12-04 17:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: acm, Stefan Monnier, emacs-devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2372 bytes --]
On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 18:03:27 +0100 Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 18:31:48 +0200 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>>> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
>>> Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>>> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 17:03:00 +0100
>>>
>>> > Thanks. This is very strange. What are the build options and the
>>> > features in each build? are they identical?
>>>
>>> emacs-27:
>>>
>>> system-configuration-options
>>> "'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
>>>
>>> system-configuration-features
>>> "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL
>>> GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11
>>> XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP"
>>>
>>> master:
>>>
>>> system-configuration-options
>>> "--with-xwidgets 'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
>>>
>>> system-configuration-features
>>> "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY
>>> INOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
>>> GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2"
>>
>> Could Cairo be the factor here? Emacs 27 was built without it.
>
> On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 11:49:25 -0500 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hmm... so in Emacs-28, "you" removed XFT and GMP and replaced them with
>> CAIRO and XWIDGETS.
>>
>> I doubt GMP and XWIDGETS make any difference, but maybe XFT or CAIRO
>> have something to do with the difference.
>>
>> It might be worth fiddling with `--with(out)-xft` and
>> `--with(out)-cairo` to see if you can get closer to the origin of
>> the difference.
>
> I can try that, but since I used the default configuration features,
> that suggests that those who got no difference between emacs-27 and
> master with the benchmark, or where emacs-27 was even faster, built
> emacs-27 --with-cairo and --without-xft. Is that the case?
Well, I went ahead and configured emacs-27 --with-cairo --without-xft,
rebuilt and ran the benchmark, and it still took ~60 seconds. I've
attached the profile because it is considerably longer than the other
emacs-27 profiles, though in general it seems similar to me, but maybe
an expert will spot a significant difference.
Steve Berman
[-- Attachment #2: profile-27-cairo --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 105632 bytes --]
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 16:28 ` Óscar Fuentes
@ 2020-12-04 18:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 21:37 ` Stephen Berman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-04 18:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Óscar Fuentes; +Cc: emacs-devel
> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 17:28:36 +0100
>
> Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net> writes:
>
> > emacs-27:
> >
> > system-configuration-options
> > "'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
> >
> > system-configuration-features
> > "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL
> > GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11
> > XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP"
> >
> > master:
> >
> > system-configuration-options
> > "--with-xwidgets 'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
> >
> > system-configuration-features
> > "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY
> > INOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
> > GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2"
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but overriding CFLAGS means that gcc
> compiles with default optimization level, wich is -O0, hence you are
> comparing unoptimized builds, right?
No, because CFLAGS say -Og in both cases, which means the compiler
uses optimization level slightly lower than -O1.
> In that case, a tiny change on some often-used macro or function can
> make a big difference.
But I see no significant difference in my unoptimized builds of both
branches.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 15:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 16:03 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-04 19:27 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-04 19:34 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 19:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 2 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-04 19:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Stephen Berman, acm, emacs-devel
>>> I just rebuilt emacs-27 with "make bootstrap", reran the benchmark,
>>> and it took ~60 seconds, about a second faster than the previous
>>> non-bootstrapped build. The profile is similar to the previous one
>>> from emacs-27, but I've attached for your perusal anyway. I'll
>>> bootstrap master too and run the benchmark there again.
>>
>> On freshly bootstrapped master the benchmark took the same time as
>> before, ~21 seconds, and the profile looks pretty much the same, so I
>> haven't attached it, but will send it if you want to see it.
>
> Thanks. This is very strange. What are the build options and the
> features in each build? are they identical?
>
Indeed with CFLAGS='-Og -g3', on my computer (Debian GNU/Linux, GCC
10.2.0) with 28.0.50 this benchmark takes 25.2 seconds, whereas with
27.1.50 it takes 67.6 seconds.
I bisected this, and the origin of the regression is commit
365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31, which changes the default to
"use 'static' instead of 'extern inline' [in C headers] because 'static'
typically has better performance for Emacs". With -Og or -O0, the
benchmark takes 67 seconds, with -O1 or above (-O2 is the default) it
takes 25 seconds.
Emacs 28.0.50 uses 'static inline' instead of 'extern inline' again,
"because 'static inline' has much better performance for Emacs when
compiled with 'gcc -Og'" (see src/conf_post.h).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 19:27 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-04 19:34 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 19:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2020-12-04 19:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings; +Cc: acm, Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel
On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 19:27:37 +0000 Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org> wrote:
>>>> I just rebuilt emacs-27 with "make bootstrap", reran the benchmark, and it
>>>> took ~60 seconds, about a second faster than the previous non-bootstrapped
>>>> build. The profile is similar to the previous one from emacs-27, but I've
>>>> attached for your perusal anyway. I'll bootstrap master too and run the
>>>> benchmark there again.
>>>
>>> On freshly bootstrapped master the benchmark took the same time as before,
>>> ~21 seconds, and the profile looks pretty much the same, so I haven't
>>> attached it, but will send it if you want to see it.
>>
>> Thanks. This is very strange. What are the build options and the features
>> in each build? are they identical?
>>
>
> Indeed with CFLAGS='-Og -g3', on my computer (Debian GNU/Linux, GCC 10.2.0)
> with 28.0.50 this benchmark takes 25.2 seconds, whereas with 27.1.50 it takes
> 67.6 seconds.
>
> I bisected this, and the origin of the regression is commit
> 365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31, which changes the default to "use
> 'static' instead of 'extern inline' [in C headers] because 'static' typically
> has better performance for Emacs". With -Og or -O0, the benchmark takes 67
> seconds, with -O1 or above (-O2 is the default) it takes 25 seconds.
>
> Emacs 28.0.50 uses 'static inline' instead of 'extern inline' again, "because
> 'static inline' has much better performance for Emacs when compiled with 'gcc
> -Og'" (see src/conf_post.h).
Thanks for tracking that down!
Steve Berman
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 19:27 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-04 19:34 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-04 19:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 20:33 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
1 sibling, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-04 19:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings; +Cc: acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 19:27:37 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
> cc: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> Indeed with CFLAGS='-Og -g3', on my computer (Debian GNU/Linux, GCC
> 10.2.0) with 28.0.50 this benchmark takes 25.2 seconds, whereas with
> 27.1.50 it takes 67.6 seconds.
>
> I bisected this, and the origin of the regression is commit
> 365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31, which changes the default to
> "use 'static' instead of 'extern inline' [in C headers] because 'static'
> typically has better performance for Emacs". With -Og or -O0, the
> benchmark takes 67 seconds, with -O1 or above (-O2 is the default) it
> takes 25 seconds.
Thanks, then I think there''s no issue here, and we can stop wondering
about the difference in performance.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 19:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-04 20:33 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-04 20:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-04 20:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: stephen.berman, acm, emacs-devel
>> Indeed with CFLAGS='-Og -g3', on my computer (Debian GNU/Linux, GCC
>> 10.2.0) with 28.0.50 this benchmark takes 25.2 seconds, whereas with
>> 27.1.50 it takes 67.6 seconds.
>>
>> I bisected this, and the origin of the regression is commit
>> 365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31, which changes the default to
>> "use 'static' instead of 'extern inline' [in C headers] because
>> 'static' typically has better performance for Emacs". With -Og or -O0,
>> the benchmark takes 67 seconds, with -O1 or above (-O2 is the default)
>> it takes 25 seconds.
>
> Thanks, then I think there''s no issue here, and we can stop wondering
> about the difference in performance.
>
There's no issue indeed, but it might make sense to merge commit
b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9 into emacs-27.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 20:33 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-04 20:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 20:59 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-04 20:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings; +Cc: acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 20:33:21 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
> cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> >> I bisected this, and the origin of the regression is commit
> >> 365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31, which changes the default to
> >> "use 'static' instead of 'extern inline' [in C headers] because
> >> 'static' typically has better performance for Emacs". With -Og or -O0,
> >> the benchmark takes 67 seconds, with -O1 or above (-O2 is the default)
> >> it takes 25 seconds.
> >
> > Thanks, then I think there''s no issue here, and we can stop wondering
> > about the difference in performance.
>
> There's no issue indeed, but it might make sense to merge commit
> b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9 into emacs-27.
No, because emacs-27 only receives bugfixes at this time, and safe
ones at that.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 17:59 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-04 20:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
2020-12-04 21:33 ` Stephen Berman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Óscar Fuentes @ 2020-12-04 20:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net> writes:
> Well, I went ahead and configured emacs-27 --with-cairo --without-xft,
> rebuilt and ran the benchmark, and it still took ~60 seconds. I've
> attached the profile because it is considerably longer than the other
> emacs-27 profiles, though in general it seems similar to me, but maybe
> an expert will spot a significant difference.
What happens if you build with CFLAGS='-O2' ?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 20:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-04 20:59 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-04 21:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-04 20:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
>>>> I bisected this, and the origin of the regression is commit
>>>> 365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31, which changes the default
>>>> to "use 'static' instead of 'extern inline' [in C headers] because
>>>> 'static' typically has better performance for Emacs". With -Og or
>>>> -O0, the benchmark takes 67 seconds, with -O1 or above (-O2 is the
>>>> default) it takes 25 seconds.
>>>
>>> Thanks, then I think there''s no issue here, and we can stop wondering
>>> about the difference in performance.
>>
>> There's no issue indeed, but it might make sense to merge commit
>> b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9 into emacs-27.
>
> No, because emacs-27 only receives bugfixes at this time, and safe ones
> at that.
>
Well, commit b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9 only changes
'#define EXTERN_INLINE static' into '#define EXTERN_INLINE static inline',
which seems pretty safe. That being said, it's not critical, given that
it only improves compilation with -Og.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 20:59 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-04 21:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 21:20 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-04 21:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings; +Cc: acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 20:59:37 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
> cc: acm@muc.de, stephen.berman@gmx.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> That being said, it's not critical, given that it only improves
> compilation with -Og.
Indeed.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 21:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-04 21:20 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 7:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-04 21:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
>> That being said, it's not critical, given that it only improves
>> compilation with -Og.
>
> Indeed.
>
Sorry, I meant: it only improves compilation with -Og _and -O0_. I don't
know if -O0 is important.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 20:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
@ 2020-12-04 21:33 ` Stephen Berman
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2020-12-04 21:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Óscar Fuentes; +Cc: emacs-devel
On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 21:47:53 +0100 Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es> wrote:
> Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net> writes:
>
>> Well, I went ahead and configured emacs-27 --with-cairo --without-xft,
>> rebuilt and ran the benchmark, and it still took ~60 seconds. I've
>> attached the profile because it is considerably longer than the other
>> emacs-27 profiles, though in general it seems similar to me, but maybe
>> an expert will spot a significant difference.
>
> What happens if you build with CFLAGS='-O2' ?
Gregory Heytings found the answer:
I bisected this, and the origin of the regression is commit
365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31, which changes the default to
"use 'static' instead of 'extern inline' [in C headers] because
'static' typically has better performance for Emacs". With -Og or
-O0, the benchmark takes 67 seconds, with -O1 or above (-O2 is the
default) it takes 25 seconds.
Steve Berman
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 18:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-04 21:37 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-05 8:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2020-12-04 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Óscar Fuentes, emacs-devel
On Fri, 04 Dec 2020 20:51:52 +0200 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
>> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 17:28:36 +0100
>>
>> Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net> writes:
>>
>> > emacs-27:
>> >
>> > system-configuration-options
>> > "'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
>> >
>> > system-configuration-features
>> > "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL
>> > GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11
>> > XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP"
>> >
>> > master:
>> >
>> > system-configuration-options
>> > "--with-xwidgets 'CFLAGS=-Og -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt5/lib/pkgconfig"
>> >
>> > system-configuration-features
>> > "XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY
>> > INOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
>> > GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER LCMS2"
>>
>> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but overriding CFLAGS means that gcc
>> compiles with default optimization level, wich is -O0, hence you are
>> comparing unoptimized builds, right?
>
> No, because CFLAGS say -Og in both cases, which means the compiler
> uses optimization level slightly lower than -O1.
>
>> In that case, a tiny change on some often-used macro or function can
>> make a big difference.
>
> But I see no significant difference in my unoptimized builds of both
> branches.
Doesn't -O0 mean unoptimized? But Gregory Heytings said that -O0
suffers the same performance hit as -Og in emacs-27 but not im master,
which your timings seem to contradict. What am I missing?
Steve Berman
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 21:20 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-05 7:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 8:14 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-05 7:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings; +Cc: acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 21:20:33 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
> cc: acm@muc.de, stephen.berman@gmx.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> Sorry, I meant: it only improves compilation with -Og _and -O0_. I don't
> know if -O0 is important.
Given my measurements (see upthread), the effect on -O0 build is
negligible. And yes, -O0 _is_ important.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 21:37 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2020-12-05 8:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-05 8:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen Berman; +Cc: ofv, emacs-devel
> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
> Cc: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 22:37:59 +0100
>
> > But I see no significant difference in my unoptimized builds of both
> > branches.
>
> Doesn't -O0 mean unoptimized?
It does.
> But Gregory Heytings said that -O0 suffers the same performance hit
> as -Og in emacs-27 but not im master, which your timings seem to
> contradict. What am I missing?
You aren't missing anything. If Gregory has timings of -O0 builds of
both branches that show a significant effect of this issue, and which
disappear at the bisection point, then there is indeed a strange
contradiction between his and my timings.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 7:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-05 8:14 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 8:44 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-05 8:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
>> Sorry, I meant: it only improves compilation with -Og _and -O0_. I
>> don't know if -O0 is important.
>
> Given my measurements (see upthread), the effect on -O0 build is
> negligible. And yes, -O0 _is_ important.
>
I don't know what happens on your computer (what is your
platform/compiler?) but on mine (Debian GNU/Linux with the latest Linux
kernel and the latest GCC) the effect on -O0 is almost the same as on -Og
for this particular benchmark. I just tried again on the emacs-27 branch:
-Og: ~67s
-O0: ~63s
-O1: ~26s
-O2: ~18s
-O3: ~17s
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 8:14 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-05 8:44 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 9:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 9:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 9:23 ` martin rudalics
2 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-05 8:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
>>> Sorry, I meant: it only improves compilation with -Og _and -O0_. I
>>> don't know if -O0 is important.
>>
>> Given my measurements (see upthread), the effect on -O0 build is
>> negligible. And yes, -O0 _is_ important.
>>
>
> I don't know what happens on your computer (what is your
> platform/compiler?) but on mine (Debian GNU/Linux with the latest Linux
> kernel and the latest GCC) the effect on -O0 is almost the same as on
> -Og for this particular benchmark. I just tried again on the emacs-27
> branch:
>
> -Og: ~67s
> -O0: ~63s
> -O1: ~26s
> -O2: ~18s
> -O3: ~17s
>
I'm sure you'll ask, so to avoid another round: yes, with make bootstrap,
on a fresh clone. And I used CLFAGS='-Og -g3', CLFAGS='-O0 -g3',
CLFAGS='-O1 -g3', CLFAGS='-O2 -g3' and CLFAGS='-O3 -g3'. If you need
other timings, feel free to ask.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 8:14 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 8:44 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-05 9:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 9:23 ` martin rudalics
2 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-05 9:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings; +Cc: acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 08:14:24 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
> cc: acm@muc.de, stephen.berman@gmx.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> >> Sorry, I meant: it only improves compilation with -Og _and -O0_. I
> >> don't know if -O0 is important.
> >
> > Given my measurements (see upthread), the effect on -O0 build is
> > negligible. And yes, -O0 _is_ important.
> >
>
> I don't know what happens on your computer (what is your
> platform/compiler?) but on mine (Debian GNU/Linux with the latest Linux
> kernel and the latest GCC) the effect on -O0 is almost the same as on -Og
> for this particular benchmark. I just tried again on the emacs-27 branch:
>
> -Og: ~67s
> -O0: ~63s
> -O1: ~26s
> -O2: ~18s
> -O3: ~17s
Well, this could be due to the fact that my builds are with
"--enable-checking=yes,glyphs" and --with-wide-int. I wouldn't expect
any of these to have such a profound effect on the difference between
the two branches, though.
To answer your question: this is GCC 9.2.0 on MS-Windows.
In any case, this is not a bug, and doesn't affect the production
code, so making that change on emacs-27 is out of the question.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 8:44 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-05 9:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 9:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-05 9:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings; +Cc: acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 08:44:38 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
> cc: acm@muc.de, stephen.berman@gmx.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> > I don't know what happens on your computer (what is your
> > platform/compiler?) but on mine (Debian GNU/Linux with the latest Linux
> > kernel and the latest GCC) the effect on -O0 is almost the same as on
> > -Og for this particular benchmark. I just tried again on the emacs-27
> > branch:
> >
> > -Og: ~67s
> > -O0: ~63s
> > -O1: ~26s
> > -O2: ~18s
> > -O3: ~17s
> >
>
> I'm sure you'll ask, so to avoid another round: yes, with make bootstrap,
> on a fresh clone. And I used CLFAGS='-Og -g3', CLFAGS='-O0 -g3',
> CLFAGS='-O1 -g3', CLFAGS='-O2 -g3' and CLFAGS='-O3 -g3'. If you need
> other timings, feel free to ask.
I wasn't going to ask that, but I would like to point out one more
potential difference: I didn't compare two builds of master before and
after that commit. Instead, I timed 32-bit builds of the current
emacs-27 and master branches which were both built with the following
optional switches to configure:
--with-wide-int --with-modules --enable-checking=yes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=-O0 -gdwarf-4 -g3'
Again, I don't expect any of this to matter so dramatically, so this
is just for completeness' sake.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 9:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-05 9:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 9:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-05 9:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ghe, acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 11:14:25 +0200
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: acm@muc.de, stephen.berman@gmx.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> I wasn't going to ask that, but I would like to point out one more
> potential difference: I didn't compare two builds of master before and
> after that commit. Instead, I timed 32-bit builds of the current
> emacs-27 and master branches which were both built with the following
> optional switches to configure:
>
> --with-wide-int --with-modules --enable-checking=yes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=-O0 -gdwarf-4 -g3'
>
> Again, I don't expect any of this to matter so dramatically, so this
> is just for completeness' sake.
And one more nit, again for completeness' sake: in both cases I timed
the scrolling through the master branch version of xdisp.c, not each
branch with its version of xdisp.c.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 8:14 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 8:44 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 9:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-05 9:23 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-05 12:55 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 14:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
2 siblings, 2 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: martin rudalics @ 2020-12-05 9:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
> I don't know what happens on your computer (what is your platform/compiler?) but on mine (Debian GNU/Linux with the latest Linux kernel and the latest GCC) the effect on -O0 is almost the same as on -Og for this particular benchmark. I just tried again on the emacs-27 branch:
>
> -Og: ~67s
> -O0: ~63s
> -O1: ~26s
> -O2: ~18s
> -O3: ~17s
So when I want to compare Emacs 27 and Emacs 28 benchmarks, -Og builds
are off limits. Now can I use O0 builds or do I have to use O1-O3
builds exclusively?
martin
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 9:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-05 9:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 13:50 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2020-12-05 15:15 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
0 siblings, 2 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-05 9:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ghe, acm, stephen.berman; +Cc: emacs-devel
> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 11:20:01 +0200
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
>
> > Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 11:14:25 +0200
> > From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> > Cc: acm@muc.de, stephen.berman@gmx.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> >
> > I wasn't going to ask that, but I would like to point out one more
> > potential difference: I didn't compare two builds of master before and
> > after that commit. Instead, I timed 32-bit builds of the current
> > emacs-27 and master branches which were both built with the following
> > optional switches to configure:
> >
> > --with-wide-int --with-modules --enable-checking=yes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=-O0 -gdwarf-4 -g3'
> >
> > Again, I don't expect any of this to matter so dramatically, so this
> > is just for completeness' sake.
>
> And one more nit, again for completeness' sake: in both cases I timed
> the scrolling through the master branch version of xdisp.c, not each
> branch with its version of xdisp.c.
It occurred to me that the differences in the relative performance
could be due to a different GCC version and/or the effect of inlining
on 32-bit code vs 64-bit code produced by GCC.
In any case, Alan's original report was for optimized builds, and he
observed (although was later unable to reproduce) that Emacs 28 was
slower than Emacs 27. So the important part of this is to compare the
performance of the optimized (-O2) builds and see if we have any
degradation in Emacs 28 in that case.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 9:23 ` martin rudalics
@ 2020-12-05 12:55 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 13:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 14:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
1 sibling, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-05 12:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: martin rudalics; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
>> I don't know what happens on your computer (what is your
>> platform/compiler?) but on mine (Debian GNU/Linux with the latest Linux
>> kernel and the latest GCC) the effect on -O0 is almost the same as on
>> -Og for this particular benchmark. I just tried again on the emacs-27
>> branch:
>>
>> -Og: ~67s
>> -O0: ~63s
>> -O1: ~26s
>> -O2: ~18s
>> -O3: ~17s
>
> So when I want to compare Emacs 27 and Emacs 28 benchmarks, -Og builds
> are off limits. Now can I use O0 builds or do I have to use O1-O3
> builds exclusively?
>
The emacs-27 branch since commit 365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31
(Sep 4 2019) is about three times slower (at least on this benchmark, with
GCC 10.2, on a 64-bit GNU/Linux) than the master branch since commit
b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9 (Apr 7 2020) with -Og and -O0.
With -O[1-3] it is not.
I'd guess that Eli will merge b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9
into emacs-27 very soon after the Emacs 27.2 release, and this slowdown
will disappear.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 12:55 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-05 13:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 15:17 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-05 13:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings; +Cc: rudalics, stephen.berman, emacs-devel, acm
> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 12:55:19 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
> cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, acm@muc.de, stephen.berman@gmx.net,
> emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> The emacs-27 branch since commit 365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31
> (Sep 4 2019) is about three times slower (at least on this benchmark, with
> GCC 10.2, on a 64-bit GNU/Linux) than the master branch since commit
> b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9 (Apr 7 2020) with -Og and -O0.
> With -O[1-3] it is not.
>
> I'd guess that Eli will merge b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9
> into emacs-27 very soon after the Emacs 27.2 release
No, this is unlikely to happen. The emacs-27 branch should only get
safe bugfixes at this time.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 9:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-05 13:50 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2020-12-05 14:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 15:15 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
1 sibling, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Basil L. Contovounesios @ 2020-12-05 13:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: ghe, acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 428 bytes --]
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> In any case, Alan's original report was for optimized builds, and he
> observed (although was later unable to reproduce) that Emacs 28 was
> slower than Emacs 27. So the important part of this is to compare the
> performance of the optimized (-O2) builds and see if we have any
> degradation in Emacs 28 in that case.
Given the following file /tmp/timeit.el based on Alan's benchmark:
[-- Attachment #2: timeit.el --]
[-- Type: application/emacs-lisp, Size: 743 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 2488 bytes --]
Byte-compile it:
$ emacs -Q -batch -f batch-byte-compile /tmp/timeit.el
Load it with each Emacs build four times:
$ for i in {0..3}; do ./src/emacs -Q -l /tmp/timeit.elc; done
Calculate mean timings:
$ for t in /tmp/timings*.txt; do awk '{s+=$1}END{print FILENAME,s/NR}' "$t"; done
/tmp/timings-27.txt 28.3246
/tmp/timings-28.txt 31.7968
Emacs 27 build info:
In GNU Emacs 27.1.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.16.0, Xaw3d scroll bars)
of 2020-12-05 built on thunk
Repository revision: 6916e7954ab5de5e2dc7b25f165a63396d0e70a0
Repository branch: emacs-27
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12008000
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid
Configured using:
'configure 'CC=ccache gcc' 'CFLAGS=-O2 -march=native'
--prefix=/home/blc/.local --program-suffix=27-opt
--with-x-toolkit=lucid --with-file-notification=yes --with-x
--with-cairo'
Configured features:
XAW3D XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND GPM DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB
NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ M17N_FLT
LIBOTF ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS LUCID X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS
LIBSYSTEMD JSON PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP
Emacs 28 build info:
In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.16.0, Xaw3d scroll bars)
of 2020-12-05 built on thunk
Repository revision: dc39c66d3bb6b1db6af0519659ff154bf6d8a5d1
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12008000
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid
Configured using:
'configure 'CC=ccache gcc' 'CFLAGS=-O2 -march=native' --config-cache
--prefix=/home/blc/.local --with-x-toolkit=lucid
--with-file-notification=yes --with-x'
Configured features:
XAW3D XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND GPM DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB
NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ M17N_FLT
LIBOTF ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS LUCID X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS
LIBSYSTEMD JSON PDUMPER LCMS2
Other info:
value of $LANG: en_IE.UTF-8
value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=ibus
locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
$ grep 'model name' /proc/cpuinfo | awk -F: 'NR==1{print $2}'
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3230M CPU @ 2.60GHz
$ grep -c 'model name' /proc/cpuinfo
4
$ gcc --version
gcc (Debian 10.2.0-19) 10.2.0
$ uname -a
Linux thunk 5.9.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.9.11-1 (2020-11-27) x86_64 GNU/Linux
HTH,
--
Basil
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 16:49 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2020-12-05 14:04 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2020-12-05 14:38 ` Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Basil L. Contovounesios @ 2020-12-05 14:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: acm, Eli Zaretskii, Stephen Berman, emacs-devel
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
> I doubt GMP and XWIDGETS make any difference
Do emacs-27 and master use different GMP libraries (libgmp vs mini-gmp)?
If so, couldn't this account for minor timing differences?
--
Basil
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 13:50 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
@ 2020-12-05 14:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 14:56 ` Ergus
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-05 14:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Basil L. Contovounesios; +Cc: ghe, acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
> From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@tcd.ie>
> Cc: ghe@sdf.org, acm@muc.de, stephen.berman@gmx.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 13:50:51 +0000
>
> $ for t in /tmp/timings*.txt; do awk '{s+=$1}END{print FILENAME,s/NR}' "$t"; done
> /tmp/timings-27.txt 28.3246
> /tmp/timings-28.txt 31.7968
Thanks, so this indicates a 12% slowdown in Emacs 28. Which isn't too
bad, I guess.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 14:04 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
@ 2020-12-05 14:38 ` Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2020-12-05 14:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Basil L. Contovounesios; +Cc: acm, Eli Zaretskii, Stephen Berman, emacs-devel
>> I doubt GMP and XWIDGETS make any difference
> Do emacs-27 and master use different GMP libraries (libgmp vs mini-gmp)?
Not that I know, no (they both use either libgmp or mini-gmp depending
on availability).
> If so, couldn't this account for minor timing differences?
No, these benchmarks use way too few bignum computations to make
any difference.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 9:23 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-05 12:55 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-05 14:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
2020-12-05 15:07 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-05 15:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 2 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Óscar Fuentes @ 2020-12-05 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at> writes:
>> I don't know what happens on your computer (what is your
>> platform/compiler?) but on mine (Debian GNU/Linux with the latest
>> Linux kernel and the latest GCC) the effect on -O0 is almost the
>> same as on -Og for this particular benchmark. I just tried again on
>> the emacs-27 branch:
>>
>> -Og: ~67s
>> -O0: ~63s
>> -O1: ~26s
>> -O2: ~18s
>> -O3: ~17s
>
> So when I want to compare Emacs 27 and Emacs 28 benchmarks, -Og builds
> are off limits. Now can I use O0 builds or do I have to use O1-O3
> builds exclusively?
-Og is the recommended setting for the edit/build/debug cycle [1],
because it *improves* debug info accuracy over -O0 *and* also runs
faster, which is a significant bonus. So IMHO it is a good thing to not
regress -Og too much. -O0, on the other hand, shouldn't be a concern.
1. https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Optimize-Options.html
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 14:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-05 14:56 ` Ergus
2020-12-05 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Ergus @ 2020-12-05 14:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii
Cc: Basil L. Contovounesios, ghe, acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 04:29:02PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@tcd.ie>
>> Cc: ghe@sdf.org, acm@muc.de, stephen.berman@gmx.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 13:50:51 +0000
>>
>> $ for t in /tmp/timings*.txt; do awk '{s+=$1}END{print FILENAME,s/NR}' "$t"; done
>> /tmp/timings-27.txt 28.3246
>> /tmp/timings-28.txt 31.7968
>
>Thanks, so this indicates a 12% slowdown in Emacs 28.
>Which isn't too bad, I guess.
>
IMHO it depends. If we know the source of the slowdown (for example, a
change introduced like using a new library, a new mode enabled, changes
in rendering/display engine or so) and the change worth it, then maybe
12% is absolutely fine.
But if the slowdown is somehow "unjustified" then 12% is not negligible
at all. Because It could be produced by wrong assumptions and get worth
in the future and harder to detect (like for example excessive GC, extra
redisplay, bad optimizations).
The best approach is maybe what Gregory did. Bisect the history to find
the source of the slowdown.
Actually in my work we have a log where we register the changes and the
commits hashes that impacted performance more than 5-7% either to
improve or degrade it.
Best,
Ergus
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 14:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
@ 2020-12-05 15:07 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-05 15:24 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: martin rudalics @ 2020-12-05 15:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Óscar Fuentes, emacs-devel
> -Og is the recommended setting for the edit/build/debug cycle [1],
> because it *improves* debug info accuracy over -O0 *and* also runs
> faster, which is a significant bonus. So IMHO it is a good thing to not
> regress -Og too much. -O0, on the other hand, shouldn't be a concern.
>
> 1. https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Optimize-Options.html
Apparently I currently can't use -Og when comparing benchmarks of older
Emacsen with Emacs 28 ones because the former don't use static inlines.
I just wanted to know whether -O0 builds of Emacs 28 are also affected
by Paul's change because it's those I use for debugging. Neither -O0
nor -Og builds are useful for normal editing here.
martin
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 14:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
2020-12-05 15:07 ` martin rudalics
@ 2020-12-05 15:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-05 15:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Óscar Fuentes; +Cc: emacs-devel
> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 15:47:32 +0100
>
> -Og is the recommended setting for the edit/build/debug cycle [1],
> because it *improves* debug info accuracy over -O0 *and* also runs
> faster, which is a significant bonus. So IMHO it is a good thing to not
> regress -Og too much. -O0, on the other hand, shouldn't be a concern.
Actually, my experience is that during development one should use -O0,
since even -Og sometimes messes up the code and backtrace so much that
GDB is unable to show variables or produce a reasonably accurate
backtrace.
But of course -O2 is of the main concern when slowdown is reported.
FWIW, I think the "original sin" here is the preference of inline
functions to C macros. We would never have such problems if we
continued to use old and time-proven macros instead of converting a
large portion of them to inline functions, which caused us portability
problems and this issue, among others.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 14:56 ` Ergus
@ 2020-12-05 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 15:29 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-05 15:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ergus; +Cc: contovob, ghe, stephen.berman, emacs-devel, acm
> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2020 15:56:22 +0100
> From: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>
> Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@tcd.ie>, ghe@sdf.org, acm@muc.de,
> stephen.berman@gmx.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> The best approach is maybe what Gregory did. Bisect the history to find
> the source of the slowdown.
Sure, if someone can afford that, it would be nice to know. Assuming
a single commit causes it, that is (it could be several commits
instead, each one slowing down Emacs by a few percents).
When I said "not too bad", it didn't mean we should disregard it, just
that it's much less than Alan originally reported, which would be
alarming.
> Actually in my work we have a log where we register the changes and the
> commits hashes that impacted performance more than 5-7% either to
> improve or degrade it.
That requires to have a representative test suite which to use for
such benchmarking. For Emacs this is not easy; for example, no one
said that Alan's benchmark is representative of what Emacs does most
of the time in "normal" usage.
Personally, I don't think we should even try to come up with single
benchmark. We should instead have several, and make sure we
understand and/or fix slowdown in any one of them. Volunteers are
welcome to work on a suite of such benchmarks, we could then put them
under test/ somewhere.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 9:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 13:50 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
@ 2020-12-05 15:15 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:31 ` Óscar Fuentes
1 sibling, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-05 15:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: acm, stephen.berman, emacs-devel
>
> It occurred to me that the differences in the relative performance could
> be due to a different GCC version and/
>
GCC is not the problem here, I just ran the same benchmark with Emacs 27
compiled with different versions of GCC:
| GCC 8.4 | GCC 9.3 | GCC 10.2 |
-Og | ~67s | ~68s | ~67s |
-O0 | ~63s | ~63s | ~63s |
-O1 | ~26s | ~27s | ~26s |
-O2 | ~18s | ~18s | ~18s |
-O3 | ~18s | ~17s | ~17s |
>
> or the effect of inlining on 32-bit code vs 64-bit code produced by GCC.
>
That's possible indeed.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 13:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-05 15:17 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-05 15:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rudalics, stephen.berman, emacs-devel, acm
>> I'd guess that Eli will merge b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9
>> into emacs-27 very soon after the Emacs 27.2 release
>
> No, this is unlikely to happen. The emacs-27 branch should only get
> safe bugfixes at this time.
>
I did not know that an Emacs 27.3 release was not planned. In that case,
the emacs-27 branch will forever remain slower with -Og and -O0 (at least
on GNU/Linux 64-bit platforms with GCC).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 15:07 ` martin rudalics
@ 2020-12-05 15:24 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:36 ` martin rudalics
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-05 15:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: martin rudalics; +Cc: Óscar Fuentes, emacs-devel
>
> Apparently I currently can't use -Og when comparing benchmarks of older
> Emacsen with Emacs 28 ones because the former don't use static inlines.
> I just wanted to know whether -O0 builds of Emacs 28 are also affected
> by Paul's change because it's those I use for debugging.
>
No they are not. As I told you in my previous mail, commit
b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9 (Apr 7 2020) restores static
inlines in the master branch.
In short:
before commit 365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31 (Sep 4 2019)
'extern inline' was the default; this includes Emacs 26 releases
after commit 365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31 'static' became the
default; this affects Emacs 27.1 and 27.2
after commit b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9 'static inline'
became the default; this will be the default for Emacs 28
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-05 15:29 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-05 15:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Ergus, contovob, ghe, stephen.berman, emacs-devel, acm
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> Personally, I don't think we should even try to come up with single
> benchmark. We should instead have several, and make sure we
> understand and/or fix slowdown in any one of them. Volunteers are
> welcome to work on a suite of such benchmarks, we could then put them
> under test/ somewhere.
We already have something like:
<https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/elisp-benchmarks.html>
It would be nice to extend it and maybe have it in core.
Andrea
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 15:15 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-05 15:31 ` Óscar Fuentes
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Óscar Fuentes @ 2020-12-05 15:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
Gregory Heytings via "Emacs development discussions."
<emacs-devel@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>> It occurred to me that the differences in the relative performance
>> could be due to a different GCC version and/
>>
>
> GCC is not the problem here, I just ran the same benchmark with Emacs
> 27 compiled with different versions of GCC:
>
> | GCC 8.4 | GCC 9.3 | GCC 10.2 |
> -Og | ~67s | ~68s | ~67s |
> -O0 | ~63s | ~63s | ~63s |
> -O1 | ~26s | ~27s | ~26s |
> -O2 | ~18s | ~18s | ~18s |
> -O3 | ~18s | ~17s | ~17s |
>
>>
>> or the effect of inlining on 32-bit code vs 64-bit code produced by GCC.
>>
>
> That's possible indeed.
In case you are discussing the origin of the problem, it is clear to me
that it is related to -Og and changing "extern inline" to "static",
which has an impact due to -finline-functions-called-once being disabled
at -Og because those functions are not inlined anymore.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 15:24 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-05 15:36 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-05 15:39 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
0 siblings, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: martin rudalics @ 2020-12-05 15:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings; +Cc: Óscar Fuentes, emacs-devel
>> I just wanted to know whether -O0 builds of Emacs 28 are also affected by Paul's change because it's those I use for debugging.
>
>
>
> No they are not. As I told you in my previous mail, commit b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9 (Apr 7 2020) restores static inlines in the master branch.
>
> In short:
>
> before commit 365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31 (Sep 4 2019) 'extern inline' was the default; this includes Emacs 26 releases
>
> after commit 365dad197bac5deec9244fd9c189d23c46c99b31 'static' became the default; this affects Emacs 27.1 and 27.2
>
> after commit b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9 'static inline' became the default; this will be the default for Emacs 28
Sorry. I'm still too dumb to understand so I ask the following instead:
(1) I can always compare -O1, -O2 and -O3 builds because these were
_not_ affected by Paul's changes. Right?
(2) I cannot compare -Og builds because these _are_ affected by Paul's
changes. At least Emacs 27 vs Emacs non-27 ones. Right?
(3) I'm yet unsure about -O0 builds. Are they (1)- or (2)-like?
martin
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 15:36 ` martin rudalics
@ 2020-12-05 15:39 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
2020-12-05 15:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 2 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-05 15:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: martin rudalics; +Cc: Óscar Fuentes, emacs-devel
>
> Sorry. I'm still too dumb to understand
>
No, you are definitely not! :-)
>
> so I ask the following instead:
>
> (1) I can always compare -O1, -O2 and -O3 builds because these were
> _not_ affected by Paul's changes. Right?
>
Yes.
>
> (2) I cannot compare -Og builds because these _are_ affected by Paul's
> changes. At least Emacs 27 vs Emacs non-27 ones. Right?
>
Yes.
>
> (3) I'm yet unsure about -O0 builds. Are they (1)- or (2)-like?
>
Like (2), at least with GCC on 64-bit GNU/Linux. Apparently Eli does not
see this on MS-Windows.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 15:39 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-05 15:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
2020-12-05 17:21 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Óscar Fuentes @ 2020-12-05 15:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
Gregory Heytings via "Emacs development discussions."
<emacs-devel@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>> Sorry. I'm still too dumb to understand
>>
>
> No, you are definitely not! :-)
>
>>
>> so I ask the following instead:
>>
>> (1) I can always compare -O1, -O2 and -O3 builds because these were
>> _not_ affected by Paul's changes. Right?
>>
>
> Yes.
>
>>
>> (2) I cannot compare -Og builds because these _are_ affected by
>> Paul's changes. At least Emacs 27 vs Emacs non-27 ones. Right?
>>
>
> Yes.
>
>>
>> (3) I'm yet unsure about -O0 builds. Are they (1)- or (2)-like?
>>
>
> Like (2), at least with GCC on 64-bit GNU/Linux. Apparently Eli does
> not see this on MS-Windows.
-O0 does not observe the "inline" declaration nor does consider "static"
functions for inlining, so -O0 should be comparable among versions,
since the "extern inline" -> "static" -> "static inline" changes are not
considered by -O0.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 15:17 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-05 15:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-05 15:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings; +Cc: rudalics, stephen.berman, acm, emacs-devel
> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 15:17:34 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
> cc: rudalics@gmx.at, stephen.berman@gmx.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, acm@muc.de
>
> >> I'd guess that Eli will merge b9b32074cecb0e0d20cf527eadacbb0b7f5cced9
> >> into emacs-27 very soon after the Emacs 27.2 release
> >
> > No, this is unlikely to happen. The emacs-27 branch should only get
> > safe bugfixes at this time.
>
> I did not know that an Emacs 27.3 release was not planned.
I didn't say it wasn't. (We won't consider whether 27.3 should be
released until some time after releasing 27.2, based on the bugs and
regressions that will still be reported against the emacs-27 branch.)
However, whether there will be Emacs 27.3 or not, the emacs-27 branch,
like any other release branch, should only get changes that fix bugs
and aren't too risky (i.e. cannot cause additional bugs/issues).
> In that case, the emacs-27 branch will forever remain slower with
> -Og and -O0 (at least on GNU/Linux 64-bit platforms with GCC).
Yes. And that is not so bad, given that your timings indicate Emacs
27.1 compiled with optimizations is better than Emacs 25 and only
slightly slower than Emacs 26.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 15:39 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
@ 2020-12-05 15:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 16:04 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
1 sibling, 1 reply; 74+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-12-05 15:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings; +Cc: ofv, rudalics, emacs-devel
> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 15:39:51 +0000
> cc: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Gregory Heytings via "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>
>
> Like (2), at least with GCC on 64-bit GNU/Linux. Apparently Eli does not
> see this on MS-Windows.
I'd be surprised if the OS had anything to do with that. If someone
can afford compiling a 32-bit build --with-wide-int on GNU/Linux using
GCC 9 or later, we could see for sure.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 15:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-12-05 16:04 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-05 16:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: ofv, rudalics, emacs-devel
>> Like (2), at least with GCC on 64-bit GNU/Linux. Apparently Eli does
>> not see this on MS-Windows.
>
> I'd be surprised if the OS had anything to do with that. If someone can
> afford compiling a 32-bit build --with-wide-int on GNU/Linux using GCC 9
> or later, we could see for sure.
>
Yes, I should have written: "on 32-bit MS-Windows".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-05 15:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
@ 2020-12-05 17:21 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-12-05 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Óscar Fuentes; +Cc: emacs-devel
>>> (3) I'm yet unsure about -O0 builds. Are they (1)- or (2)-like?
>>
>> Like (2), at least with GCC on 64-bit GNU/Linux. Apparently Eli does
>> not see this on MS-Windows.
>
> -O0 does not observe the "inline" declaration nor does consider "static"
> functions for inlining, so -O0 should be comparable among versions,
> since the "extern inline" -> "static" -> "static inline" changes are not
> considered by -O0.
>
I stand corrected, I mixed things up. The benchmark with GCC 10.2 on
64-bit GNU/Linux gives:
| A | B | C
-Og | ~21s | ~67s | ~25s
-O0 | ~59s | ~63s | ~75s
-O1 | ~17s | ~26s | ~21s
-O2 | ~16s | ~18s | ~20s
-O3 | ~16s | ~17s | ~19s
A = commit 507d5548349540dbde67d3e535a4607fd2207c49 (last with 'extern inline')
B = emacs-27 ('static')
C = master ('static inline')
(Note that the difference between A and C is in part due to the difference
of xdisp.c file length: 33842 for A, 35661 for C.)
In short: the '#define EXTERN_INLINE' changes only affect builds with -Og.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
* Re: The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch.
2020-12-04 9:59 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
@ 2020-12-09 4:23 ` andres.ramirez
0 siblings, 0 replies; 74+ messages in thread
From: andres.ramirez @ 2020-12-09 4:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Heytings; +Cc: Alan Mackenzie, emacs-devel
Hi. Gregory.
>>>>> "Emacs" == Emacs development discussions <Gregory> writes:
[...]
Gregory> Emacs 23.4.1: 5.2s (that's not a typo: five seconds) Emacs 24.5.1: 28.2s Emacs 25.2.2:
Gregory> 27.6s Emacs 26.3: 16.9s Emacs 27.1: 18.5s Emacs 28.0.50: 19.5s
Emacs23 is the speed of light emacs version.
I am replying to this email that was from several days ago. Today It seems an emacs28 x-frame is as speedier as an emacs27
x-frame.
So congrats guys for the work.
Best Regards
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 74+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-12-09 4:23 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 74+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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2020-12-03 18:15 The Emacs master is much slower than the emacs-27 branch Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-03 20:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 9:13 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-03 20:59 ` Mattias Engdegård
2020-12-04 9:24 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-04 10:46 ` Alan Third
2020-12-04 11:07 ` Mattias Engdegård
2020-12-03 21:09 ` Ergus
2020-12-04 9:19 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-03 22:17 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 9:04 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-04 9:32 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 9:53 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-12-04 10:14 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 11:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 12:54 ` Stephen Berman
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2020-12-04 16:03 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 16:28 ` Óscar Fuentes
2020-12-04 18:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 21:37 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-05 8:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 16:49 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-05 14:04 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2020-12-05 14:38 ` Stefan Monnier
[not found] ` <837dpxedmz.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-12-04 17:03 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 17:59 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 20:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
2020-12-04 21:33 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 17:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 19:27 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-04 19:34 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-04 19:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 20:33 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-04 20:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 20:59 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-04 21:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 21:20 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 7:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 8:14 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 8:44 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 9:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 9:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 9:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 13:50 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2020-12-05 14:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 14:56 ` Ergus
2020-12-05 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 15:29 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:15 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:31 ` Óscar Fuentes
2020-12-05 9:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 9:23 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-05 12:55 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 13:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 15:17 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 14:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
2020-12-05 15:07 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-05 15:24 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:36 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-05 15:39 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:47 ` Óscar Fuentes
2020-12-05 17:21 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-05 16:04 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-05 15:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-04 14:55 ` Arthur Miller
2020-12-04 15:00 ` Arthur Miller
2020-12-04 9:59 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-12-09 4:23 ` andres.ramirez
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