Status fix for "Regression in fill-paragraph behavior"?

Status fix for "Regression in fill-paragraph behavior"?

[Wagemans, Peter]

In org 7.8.11 with emacs 24.2 fill-paragraph used to recognize
paragraph fill prefixes as usual for mail citations. This seems to be
no longer the case (which I noticed first with org 7.9.3 with emacs
24.3). Apparently this has been noticed before and a bug reported,
according to

    http://list-archives.org/2013/03/13/emacs-orgmode-gnu-org/o-regression-in-%60fill-paragraph-behavior/f/2446639327

On this page, Bastien says it has been fixed, to be included in 8.0.
However, in my setup 8.0.3 still doesn't do fill-paragraph as expected
for mail citations. Is the fix present in 8.0.3? If yes, is some
configuration needed in the new version to restore this functionality?
If no, is the fix available elsewhere?

Regards,

Peter Wagemans

Re: Status fix for "Regression in fill-paragraph behavior"?

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

"Wagemans, Peter" <peter.wagemans@kpn.com> writes:

> In org 7.8.11 with emacs 24.2 fill-paragraph used to recognize
> paragraph fill prefixes as usual for mail citations. This seems to be
> no longer the case (which I noticed first with org 7.9.3 with emacs
> 24.3). Apparently this has been noticed before and a bug reported,
> according to
>
>     http://list-archives.org/2013/03/13/emacs-orgmode-gnu-org/o-regression-in-%60fill-paragraph-behavior/f/2446639327
>
> On this page, Bastien says it has been fixed, to be included in 8.0.
> However, in my setup 8.0.3 still doesn't do fill-paragraph as expected
> for mail citations. Is the fix present in 8.0.3? If yes, is some
> configuration needed in the new version to restore this functionality?
> If no, is the fix available elsewhere?

You can wrap your mail citation within a Verse block (or an example
block).


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Status fix for "Regression in fill-paragraph behavior"?

[Wagemans, Peter]

Nicolas Goaziou wrote:

> You can wrap your mail citation within a Verse block (or an example
> block).

That appears to inhibit paragraph filling. The desired and previously
existing functionality is paragraph filling that preserves the
paragraph citation prefix.

Also, I often compose complete text mail bodies including citations in
an org-mode document and then you don't want org-mode block directives
in the mail text.

Does the above reply mean that the regression hasn't been fixed yet?
Is it still being worked on?

Regards,

Peter Wagemans

Re: Status fix for "Regression in fill-paragraph behavior"?

[Nicolas Goaziou]

"Wagemans, Peter" <peter.wagemans@kpn.com> writes:

> Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
>
>> You can wrap your mail citation within a Verse block (or an example
>> block).
>
> That appears to inhibit paragraph filling. The desired and previously
> existing functionality is paragraph filling that preserves the
> paragraph citation prefix.

Then try editing your text in a block like:

  #+BEGIN_SRC message
  > ...
  #+END_SRC

You can edit the message with C-c ' and benefit from Message mode's
filling mechanism. Org recognizes its own prefixes and cannot cope with
other modes'.

> Also, I often compose complete text mail bodies including citations in
> an org-mode document and then you don't want org-mode block directives
> in the mail text.

I think you want to edit your message in Message mode, not in Org mode,
then.

> Does the above reply mean that the regression hasn't been fixed yet?
> Is it still being worked on?

I wouldn't call it a regression since this behaviour never was defined
as a feature in the first place.

Recognizing citation prefix means recognizing a new type of data in Org
syntax. I don't think it's worth it considering Org is not to replace
Message.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Status fix for "Regression in fill-paragraph behavior"?

[Wagemans, Peter]

Nicolas Goaziou wrote:

> Then try editing your text in a block like:
> 
>   #+BEGIN_SRC message
>   > ...
>   #+END_SRC

Or with fundamental or text mode. Possible but more cumbersome. Normal
text paragraph fill used to "just work".

> I wouldn't call it a regression since this behaviour never was defined
> as a feature in the first place.

Maybe it wasn't defined, but it used to work up to 7.8.11 (at least).
For me it is very useful and often used functionality and even
fundamental and text mode offer it. So why break that? Could org-mode
perhaps delegate text paragraph fill to the functions used by those
modes (from Emacs fill.el I presume), so that the standard Emacs
"Adaptive Fill" functionality remains available?

Regards,

Peter Wagemans

Re: Status fix for "Regression in fill-paragraph behavior"?

[Nicolas Goaziou]

"Wagemans, Peter" <peter.wagemans@kpn.com> writes:

> Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
>
>> Then try editing your text in a block like:
>> 
>>   #+BEGIN_SRC message
>>   > ...
>>   #+END_SRC
>
> Or with fundamental or text mode. Possible but more cumbersome. Normal
> text paragraph fill used to "just work".

No, it didn't "just work". It mixed Org keywords, ignored line breaks...
which are part of Org syntax, unlike to mail citation markup. Fixing it
broke a side-effect you used. I understand this is annoying, but it is
all about priority.

> Maybe it wasn't defined, but it used to work up to 7.8.11 (at least).
> For me it is very useful and often used functionality and even
> fundamental and text mode offer it.

And rst mode doesn't. Some major modes have such a feature, some others
don't.

Also, you have to admit that Org is a bit more complex than Text mode
(or Fundamental mode), and may have different requirements.

> Could org-mode perhaps delegate text paragraph fill to the functions
> used by those modes (from Emacs fill.el I presume), so that the
> standard Emacs "Adaptive Fill" functionality remains available?

Again, what you call standard "Adaptive Fill" is not standard, since it
depends on the major mode.

I think external packages (filladapt.el?) might provide the
functionality you're after, assuming you configure them to play nicely
with Org.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Status fix for "Regression in fill-paragraph behavior"?

[Wagemans, Peter]

Nicolas Goaziou wrote:

> Also, you have to admit that Org is a bit more complex than Text mode
> (or Fundamental mode), and may have different requirements.

It sure is a great tool, with a lot of useful functionality. But the
new paragraph fill breaks my old workflows, so I am trying to find a
way around that (preferably the easiest ;-). Is there some way or
setting to tell org that in a node or perhaps all nodes in a subtree
it should apply the adaptive fill from fill.el to text paragraphs, so
that the fill-prefix is automatically recognized like in fundamental
and text mode? Or is there some function that I can call (and bind to
some key combination) to apply the old paragraph fill to some text
paragraph?  So that plain text paragraphs and citations that don't use
any org features can be filled in the old way.

> Again, what you call standard "Adaptive Fill" is not standard, since it
> depends on the major mode.

The word "standard" was meant in the following sense: "Adaptive Fill"
that automatically recognizes a fill-prefix is available and enabled
by default in the basic text editing modes of Emacs like
fundamental-mode and text-mode.

> I think external packages (filladapt.el?) might provide the
> functionality you're after, assuming you configure them to play
> nicely with Org.

The org manual says "Many users reported they had problems using both
'filladapt.el' and Org mode", so I'm not very enthusiastic about
embarking on that route.

Regards,

Peter Wagemans

Re: Status fix for "Regression in fill-paragraph behavior"?

[Suvayu Ali]

Hello Peter,

On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 01:03:41PM +0200, Wagemans, Peter wrote:
> 
> Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
> 
> > Also, you have to admit that Org is a bit more complex than Text mode
> > (or Fundamental mode), and may have different requirements.
> 
> It sure is a great tool, with a lot of useful functionality. But the
> new paragraph fill breaks my old workflows, so I am trying to find a
> way around that (preferably the easiest ;-). Is there some way or
> setting to tell org that in a node or perhaps all nodes in a subtree
> it should apply the adaptive fill from fill.el to text paragraphs, so
> that the fill-prefix is automatically recognized like in fundamental
> and text mode? Or is there some function that I can call (and bind to
> some key combination) to apply the old paragraph fill to some text
> paragraph?  So that plain text paragraphs and citations that don't use
> any org features can be filled in the old way.

Untested idea: you could adapt org-fill-paragraph to suit your needs and
call the custom fill function when you need it.

Hope this helps,

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

Re: Status fix for "Regression in fill-paragraph behavior"?

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

"Wagemans, Peter" <peter.wagemans@kpn.com> writes:

> Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
>
>> Also, you have to admit that Org is a bit more complex than Text mode
>> (or Fundamental mode), and may have different requirements.
>
> It sure is a great tool, with a lot of useful functionality. But the
> new paragraph fill breaks my old workflows, so I am trying to find a
> way around that (preferably the easiest ;-). Is there some way or
> setting to tell org that in a node or perhaps all nodes in a subtree
> it should apply the adaptive fill from fill.el to text paragraphs, so
> that the fill-prefix is automatically recognized like in fundamental
> and text mode? Or is there some function that I can call (and bind to
> some key combination) to apply the old paragraph fill to some text
> paragraph?  So that plain text paragraphs and citations that don't use
> any org features can be filled in the old way.

You probably can bind the following function:

  (defun my-good-ole-filling-fun ()
    (interactive)
    (let ((fill-paragraph-function nil) (adaptive-fill-function nil))
      (fill-paragraph)))


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Status fix for "Regression in fill-paragraph behavior"?

[Samuel Wales]

On 5/24/13, Wagemans, Peter <peter.wagemans@kpn.com> wrote:
> In org 7.8.11 with emacs 24.2 fill-paragraph used to recognize
> paragraph fill prefixes as usual for mail citations. This seems to be
> no longer the case (which I noticed first with org 7.9.3 with emacs
> 24.3). Apparently this has been noticed before and a bug reported,
> according to

filladapt.el works.

Samuel

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