From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Strozzi, David J." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23483: 24.5; cygwin emacs w32 doesn not ask to save files when windows shuts down Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 20:02:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83a8k0e6l3.fsf@gnu.org> <83y47hc1r9.fsf@gnu.org> <86773dca-93da-e643-74df-a80cafcbf716@cornell.edu> <83shxn9pv7.fsf@gnu.org> <83inyh97g8.fsf@gnu.org> , <83eg9585ol.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1463256208 11300 80.91.229.3 (14 May 2016 20:03:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 20:03:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "23483@debbugs.gnu.org" <23483@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 14 22:03:14 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1b1fmJ-0002dx-Ey for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 22:03:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38755 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b1fmI-0007jl-P8 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 16:03:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38095) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b1fmE-0007fC-JE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 16:03:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b1fmA-0002ws-9h for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 16:03:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:39395) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b1fmA-0002wo-66 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 16:03:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b1fm9-0006Pl-TY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 16:03:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Strozzi, David J." Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 20:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23483 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23483-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23483.146325613924606 (code B ref 23483); Sat, 14 May 2016 20:03:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23483) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2016 20:02:19 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51732 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b1flQ-0006Ok-3e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 16:02:19 -0400 Original-Received: from prdiron-2.llnl.gov ([128.15.143.172]:42039) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b1flO-0006OY-Kf for 23483@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2016 16:02:15 -0400 X-Attachments: Original-Received: from prdexhub-01-snat.llnl.gov (HELO PRDEXHUB-01.the-lab.llnl.gov) ([128.15.143.213]) by prdiron-2.llnl.gov with ESMTP; 14 May 2016 13:02:08 -0700 Original-Received: from PRDEXMBX-01.the-lab.llnl.gov ([169.254.1.49]) by PRDEXHUB-01.the-lab.llnl.gov ([128.15.143.150]) with mapi id 14.03.0279.002; Sat, 14 May 2016 13:02:08 -0700 Thread-Topic: bug#23483: 24.5; cygwin emacs w32 doesn not ask to save files when windows shuts down Thread-Index: AQHRqs8DvUJmerh/90ex5TTIJKtDlp+yXYvDgANuwwD//7yqFYAAqAsAgADgGgCAABg4s4AAAvuggADhHX2AANDwqA== In-Reply-To: <83eg9585ol.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [128.15.245.15] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:118242 Archived-At: Hi,=0A= =0A= I appreciate your viewpoint, and am glad the current improvement was made. = You should feel free to close this issue and move on, but let me just say:= =0A= =0A= When _you_ quit a windows program, it asks you to save changes. Emacs does= this too, when you quit with C-x C-c. or click on the X in the upper-right= corner of the window. When _Windows_ closes a program as part of restart = / shutdown / logout, it behaves the same way. Except for emacs. Maybe thi= s is what I find unsettling: "I quit the program" and "Windows quits the pr= ogram" behave the same way for all programs I use, except emacs.=0A= =0A= So, what would you think about emacs doing C-x C-c when windows tells it to= quit?=0A= =0A= The advantage of the typical Windows-shutdown behavior is I can tell window= s to shut down, and each program will prompt me if anything's changed, else= is silently quits. Much faster than me manually switching to and quitting= every program.=0A= =0A= Dave=0A= =0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: Eli Zaretskii [eliz@gnu.org]=0A= Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 12:22 AM=0A= To: Strozzi, David J.=0A= Cc: kbrown@cornell.edu; 23483@debbugs.gnu.org=0A= Subject: Re: bug#23483: 24.5; cygwin emacs w32 doesn not ask to save files = when windows shuts down=0A= =0A= > From: "Strozzi, David J." =0A= > CC: "kbrown@cornell.edu" , "23483@debbugs.gnu.org"=0A= > <23483@debbugs.gnu.org>=0A= > Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 20:02:08 +0000=0A= >=0A= > Hmmm, this doesn't sound like a great fix. It's really a "failsafe", but= not what Windows users expect.=0A= =0A= Windows users expect that a program either asks or silently does The=0A= Right Thing. Emacs will now do the latter. I don't see why we should=0A= emulate annoying behavior of programs that insist on asking. I have=0A= always hated to answer gobs of these questions when I restart a busy=0A= system. Most of those questions are redundant anyway, e.g., if I=0A= change the size of a column in an Excel spreadsheet.=0A= =0A= > When you open the file again, how will you know that there's another auto= -save file? Will emacs tell you?=0A= =0A= Yes, Emacs will tell you the file has auto-saved changes, and will=0A= propose a command to restore them.=0A= =0A= > What if you open the file in another program? Or you're editing source co= de / script and then make / run it, nothing will tell you about the auto-sa= ved file.=0A= =0A= But the system didn't just go down on its own, at least that's not=0A= what happens frequently. _You_ shut it down, so why won't you restore=0A= the files after it comes up (or save them before you shut down) in the=0A= first place? It makes very little sense to me.=0A= =0A= > Perhaps better is to have emacs simply abort a restart / shutdown and req= uire the user to manually close emacs.=0A= =0A= No, this is even worse. When I want to restart my system, I want it=0A= to come up quickly enough, and I frequently turn to other things while=0A= it restarts.=0A= =0A= > If it doesn't behave like other windows programs (query user to save unsa= ved files), then we have to remember emacs is special. You could have a pa= rameter for whether emacs aborts a windows shutdown, default to yes, and th= en users and consciously shut it off if they want.=0A= =0A= The feature that got coded is a safety feature, a kind of fire escape.=0A= Normally, you are expected to shut down Emacs before you turn off the=0A= system. For a "fire escape", having an option that controls it makes=0A= no sense to me, because safety features should be always active.=0A=