From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: bug#10385: e binding in info-mode Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 15:27:01 -0800 Message-ID: References: <201112272237.pBRMbo8C022896@freefriends.org><62fwftxnbz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org><83fwfsoluz.fsf@gnu.org> <871urckv7k.fsf@mail.jurta.org><962D35497CE84D16B1B5F7AA509BFB59@us.oracle.com><878vljchjo.fsf@mail.jurta.org><76BD385B7317495CAE8E5EBFE545A1BB@us.oracle.com> <87d3av9khw.fsf@mail.jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1325978842 32598 80.91.229.12 (7 Jan 2012 23:27:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 23:27:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Eli Zaretskii' , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Juri Linkov'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 08 00:27:17 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RjffQ-0007lc-Mf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:27:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42633 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjffQ-0003OP-4H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 07 Jan 2012 18:27:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:43343) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjffN-0003OI-At for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jan 2012 18:27:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjffM-0007XA-Ho for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jan 2012 18:27:13 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:35792) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjffK-0007Wp-RA; Sat, 07 Jan 2012 18:27:11 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id q07NR8BA001742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 7 Jan 2012 23:27:09 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q07NR8DW001893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 7 Jan 2012 23:27:08 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt108.oracle.com (abhmt108.oracle.com [141.146.116.60]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q07NR81l014147; Sat, 7 Jan 2012 17:27:08 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.36.141) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 07 Jan 2012 15:27:07 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87d3av9khw.fsf@mail.jurta.org> thread-index: AczNkhxDUf4jF67FSzGjUSQN6THZWwAAEa1w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4F08D4CD.0067,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 141.146.126.227 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147464 Archived-At: > > For example, it might be decided to announce the > > deprecation of this option in 24.1, and then make it > > obsolete in 24.2 (since Emacs point releases are > > relatively major). > > The Info-edit feature is already deprecated in 23.1. > And paradoxically, the person who deprecated this > feature is you, Drew. > > When your Info-breadcrumbs code was added to info.el, it > broke Info-edit because the added breadcrumbs line is > saved to Info files after editing. But nobody complained > about this breakage since nobody uses it ;-) You're still missing the point, Juri. What I said about obsolescence wrt official announcement holds for deprecation as well. Something is neither made obsolete nor deprecated just because it is broken or no one uses it. There are thousands of things in Emacs that one might find no one uses, and plenty of things that are broken (we do have a non-negligible list of outstanding bugs). Neither means that such things are deprecated. Typically, deprecation involves an official announcement. It constitutes a heads-up to users so that they can think about moving away from it. It is fair warning that in an upcoming release the feature might be (or will be, depending on the deprecation notice) made obsolete, e.g., desupported. I find nothing in the Emacs 23.1, or 23.2, or 23.3 NEWS about `Info-edit', in particular, no deprecation notice. Unless such a notice appeared somewhere else that I haven't found, `Info-edit' was not deprecated in 23.1, even if 23.1 happened to break it (whether by breadcrumbs or some other way). The fact that this feature might have been broken (whenever), and the fact that perhaps no one used it (whenever), have nothing to do with the non-fact that it was deprecated (whenever).