From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Where to contribute manual translations ? (Re: Emacs-devel Digest, Vol 238, Issue 29) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 14:21:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <838r5d7bcc.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14683"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 29 16:09:36 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rJEUR-0003WL-7W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2023 16:09:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rJEUC-0007uk-Ph; Fri, 29 Dec 2023 10:09:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rJDjz-0008QB-1P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2023 09:21:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-40136.proton.ch ([185.70.40.136]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rJDjv-00066b-O1; Fri, 29 Dec 2023 09:21:34 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=traductaire-libre.org; s=protonmail; t=1703859687; x=1704118887; bh=yvtSjW3xLEMxQoxkI1LBVrXEXARAmGXjkev1GkAmV+I=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=cqIzmcoXZqO5tTDZGw8LtOxEWdzxfTV26PJkaLbPidk32Q9SSkB5bVQJRoRDolpGU dZhxirQIjraJyadX9SxhVdnJALRLxm/OAM4niVJdP9vTYY1F01wTzw3EWuAmh40b6S wMyXM0+VzF8KD4m2fxeRuAEFUVY6JHX2UGXHMKFTzgduB49yfr0KQOtRIDF4eBuE0B 48qdnBNSNOgfdaogJWnWXy1YFO5sqW55M+wpNG6UYlROBZFvIAxPVt1Tzedh3xMbBe C2+2P5eS8Ozxvc0Z8ER+Kc5djp0LrE6cBlW81fJxYUrNbFHt3kYBIBeMHauMcTdqIe QQb4EN+9pPe7w== In-Reply-To: <838r5d7bcc.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 92162971:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.136; envelope-from=jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org; helo=mail-40136.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 10:09:14 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314327 Archived-At: > On Dec 29, 2023, at 15:48, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 >> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 01:23:40 +0000 >> From: Jean-Christophe Helary >> Cc: vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, stefankangas@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org >>=20 >>>> Another question : how to internationalize docstrings ? IMHO it would >>>> be great if the docstring could have some info manual anchor in it, an= d >>>> one could display it from the currently selected language manual. >>>> Besides, reading docstring from manual via some anchor is basically >>>> what Calc does with some kitchen tricks. >> Eli answered that. >> There is also a different issue, that comes before translation, it is=20 >> fixing user facing strings, so that they can eventually be translated=20 >> one day. I also made a presentation on that at EmacsConf 2022: >> https://emacsconf.org/2022/talks/localizing/ >=20 > I believe this issue was also raised in the discussions whose pointers > I provided. You=E2=80=99re correct. > AFAIR, this issue is a much harder one, since manipulating such strings= =20 > is pervasive in Emacs, and mostly in Lisp, not in C. My experience with package.el, as I suggested in the presentation, is that knowledge of Emacs Lisp can be obtained while checking the strings. There are not that many functions that act on strings, so it= =E2=80=99s relatively easy to see what=E2=80=99s going on in the code and how the stri= ngs are produced. The slightly more difficult part is to fix the strings so that even if there is a little redundancy, there are not smart tricks on language =E2=80=9Cobjects=E2=80=9D (like =E2=80=9Cconcatenate an s if such variable = is bigger than 1=E2=80=9D), because that involves writing some real and correct elisp :) But it=E2=80=99s a fun and very practical way to learn some parts of Elisp. As for creating a process for actually localizing the strings and displaying them in the locale language, you are right to say that we concluded that it was a much harder issue, since we=E2=80=99d have to come = up with a lisp-specific system, if my memory is correct. --=20 Jean-Christophe Helary @jchelary@emacs.ch https://traductaire-libre.org https://mac4translators.blogspot.com https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/