From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Guile in Emacs Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:30:38 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4B8147A9.7030504@gmail.com> <87hbp2fwoi.fsf@gnu.org> <87wrxrr4md.fsf@gnu.org> <3vsk8ecg6a.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <873a0euot4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <873a0cyv3r.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87aauiho3y.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <1271028837.6164.55.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <1271102739.6067.38.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <8039yz34ka.fsf@tiny.isode.net> <1271173887.6067.53.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1271251902 25125 80.91.229.12 (14 Apr 2010 13:31:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 13:31:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bruce.stephens@isode.com, lord@emf.net, Christian Lynbech , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 14 15:31:38 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O22gm-0005Uy-5T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:31:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40745 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O22gj-0001J9-KF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:31:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1O22g6-00012a-Ck for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:30:50 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=34079 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O22g5-00011q-1o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:30:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O22g3-0003Fb-PU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:30:48 -0400 Original-Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.147]:49111) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O22fz-0003EJ-NH; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:30:43 -0400 Original-Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so34551qwk.24 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 06:30:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:mime-version :content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=PyftKZfb0lWzrFwXopXlikbTkOuQD/hioqAF1EjW9dQ=; b=agW7YoHwg7PmJV0M0/kELhkFl7BH8JyZzBT1Ki3lR+nzQIr6T0h6DfnV89glC9T4ct rEaQD9ZA+lXlSBywEC8jF4zj4OJWIoCbHyBe3gNRQ3pvGlLiSUF6CFDsQcCcq0XeeC1d X0603AEzwxITwD0Sa58G1oMlCjVSdna3Y3CYU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; b=a+MYK8VQz4A8/tclO3emx/Ocv8MFOqTIBm7BHq0/ciCbiGTwcG/jtAtbruxHYBPbK/ 7dz3/EQV99dj1zfRQqi/BXx+oLdubKc/1PETy8y1Bfl98CfYGtIdvONxDr69a7r0wyLo UPSeKhsv0Tj4Rg07hvCSSgMEFWod4TJFQ483U= Original-Received: by 10.224.103.69 with SMTP id j5mr2658066qao.158.1271251842344; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 06:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.9.141] (pool-74-105-230-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net [74.105.230.191]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm2041019qwh.55.2010.04.14.06.30.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 14 Apr 2010 06:30:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:123635 Archived-At: On Apr 14, 2010, at 1:02 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: > Common Lisp is extremely complicated and ugly. When I wrote GNU Emacs > I had just finished implementing Common Lisp, and I did not like it > much. It would bloat Emacs terribly, and documenting it would be hard > too. Do you mean the libraries are? Because the core syntax of CL is pretty = simple. Also, with Scheme there are several core semantic differences = from Emacs Lisp: a) It's a Lisp-1, and b) the difference between nil, () = and #f. Those two right there can make porting any significant Emacs = application extremely difficult. As for Common Lisp -- or let's say, a functional subset for the purpose = of making it an Emacs extension language -- if, as some suggest, it's = worthwhile to ignore existing code and start afresh, why isn't a project = like CLmacs more interesting? It's very Emacs like, but lacks all the = useful libraries which make Emacs what it is. Personally I think adopting a new internal language for Emacs, just so = GNU can have a common scripting language, is somewhat ludicrous. Emacs = Lisp has proven itself to be incredibly useful, as shown by the enormous = number of contributors and extensive library of code -- some of which = has seen extensive usage for a decade or more now. It may have its = warts, but so will any system by the time its use=01rs are done with it. Lastly, I'm not at all convinced Emacs Lisp needs multithreading. I = would prefer a coarser model of process separation to allow things like = Gnus to run in tandem with other tasks. It would be nice if a wholly = separate process could connect to the frames/windows/buffers (but not = symbol space) of a master Emacs process. I was just considering = yesterday the truly scary-to-debug scenarios that come up when you = realize dynamic variables can change mid-form, or that hooks might run = while other hooks are executing. There is so much code that depends on = sequence of execution that I think multithreading could cause us = stability headaches for years and years. John=