From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13276: 24.2.50; apropos-variable Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 08:56:13 -0800 Message-ID: References: <87ehi1wfhj.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87pq1kc4eo.fsf@bzg.ath.cx><38E9A068A13749DC894603C55CC6D667@us.oracle.com><87a9sjkamm.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87boczirs3.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1357664228 6162 80.91.229.3 (8 Jan 2013 16:57:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 16:57:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 13276@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org To: "'Bastien'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 08 17:57:24 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TscUM-0000fr-Pj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:57:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36940 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TscU7-0006VG-8J for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 11:57:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37311) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TscU4-0006Uv-5P for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 11:57:05 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TscTx-0003Np-AP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 11:57:04 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:43756) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TscTx-0003Nj-7C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 11:56:57 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TscU1-0006Op-NC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 11:57:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:57:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13276 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 13276-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13276.135766419824564 (code B ref 13276); Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:57:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 13276) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2013 16:56:38 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56996 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TscTc-0006O7-F2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 11:56:36 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:20356) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TscTZ-0006Nt-F7 for 13276@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 11:56:35 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r08GuJBT021261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 Jan 2013 16:56:20 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r08GuJbs003502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 8 Jan 2013 16:56:19 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r08GuIvk022420; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 10:56:18 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.239.152) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 08:56:18 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87boczirs3.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> Thread-Index: Ac3tugnvpmQ5zZqTR1CVw1r1UpZwggAAtHuA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:69502 Archived-At: > I'm not interested in being right or getting things perfect, > I'm interested in improving them by contributing directly. I contributed the same suggestion wrt `apropos-variable' directly many years ago. Nothing wrong with contributing directly. No one has criticised you or what you are interested in. I'm glad that you contributed to getting this change made finally. Contributing directly is not in contradiction with trying to DTRT when contributing. One can argue that `apropos-user-option' _is_ the right thing. Or one can state that s?he has no time to contribute to getting the name right. Nothing wrong with either of those. But I do not see any logical contradiction between "contributing directly" and trying to DTRT - in this case, trying to get the name right. > Criticism is welcome, Thank you so much. But please recognize that my criticism has not been of you or anyone else. No one is criticizing you. My arguments have been only about why Emacs should use this name instead of that name. I too am trying to "improve things by contributing directly" my proposals and supporting reasons. Thinking about and discussing what should be done can contribute to improving things just as much as committing changes to the code base. Behind code there is design. > but please do remember everyone's time > is more than precious: it's invaluable. Everyone's, including mine. My contributions, which take time, are intended to help. No one requires you to consider them or to reply. If you don't have the time or are not interested, no problem. This new name will likely be around for quite a while. If it is `apropos-user-option' then we will live with that. It's not a big deal that it does not fit with the other commands regarding options and faces. But while we're at it, we could just do it right. > So sorry, but I won't discuss this further. If you want to > submit a patch, please do so If there is a decision to revert to the name `apropos-option' then I will gladly submit a patch to do that. > -- you said earlier that you already explained why you > don't contribute directly, No idea what that means. I contribute directly all the time, and I am doing so now. If you mean committing code then no, I do not do that. I have no programmer tools on my laptop (which belongs to my employer), and I do not intend to have any. If someone else does not want to commit a patch I submit that has been agreed upon, so be it. If a patch or a suggestion I submit is not agreed upon, so be it. I do not decide things for Emacs Dev. And I do not commit to the Emacs source-code tree. Other than that, I contribute in many ways, all of which I consider to be "direct". Best, Drew