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X-OriginatorOrg: sct-15-20-4755-11-msonline-outlook-fb43a.templateTenant X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: PAXP192MB1608.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 040c93b2-ee65-4b79-e6c3-08dc12f06c9e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Jan 2024 21:58:20.2994 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DU0P192MB1794 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=40.92.65.73; envelope-from=vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr; helo=EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-texinfo@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the Texinfo documentation system List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.general:3415 gmane.emacs.devel:314880 Archived-At: --_000_AS1P192MB1590A83E97F8A468EED71A1D84682AS1P192MB1590EURP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just to react to this comment : I fully agree that a translation should kee= p exactly the same anchor & node names. So that switching the language is j= ust a matter of replacing en by de, fr, ru, jp etc. Emacs info viewer inserts the word =AB see =BB, even in French, before link= s, fortunately =AB see =BB does not mean anything wrong in French, but stil= l, this is a hassle. I wonder why this was done this way. Also, a module like Calc finds function / command doc in the manual relying= on some search, so this way of doing should be generalized, and made langu= age independant if for other module than Calc people want to proceed this w= ay, and if they want have translation of the manual. V. ________________________________ De : Gavin Smith Envoy=E9 : jeudi 11 janvier 2024 21:37 =C0 : Eli Zaretskii Cc : pertusus@free.fr ; jean.christophe.helary@traductair= e-libre.org ; stefankangas@gm= ail.com ; vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr ; emacs-devel@gnu.org ; rms@gnu.org ; help-texinfo@gnu.org Objet : Re: @dircategory (Re: Translating Emacs manuals is of strategic imp= ortance) On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 10:03:29PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Gavin Smith > > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:46:30 +0000 > > Cc: pertusus@free.fr, jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org, > > stefankangas@gmail.com, vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, emacs-devel@gnu.or= g, > > rms@gnu.org, help-texinfo@gnu.org > > > > > > Although it's not ideal, using cross-reference labels may be the be= st > > > > solution. It would be a temporary solution if the targetted manual > > > > obtained an English translation later. Once that is the case, the > > > > first manual could be updated with the translated node name, so > > > > "*note Choisir Tampon:(emacs)Select Buffer." becomes > > > > "*note (emacs)Choisir Tampon::", eliminating the English. > > > > > > You mean, the Info reader should do that? It would mean that the Inf= o > > > reader will need to access all its cross-manual links in a node befor= e > > > it can display the node with or without the English node names. > > > > I meant that the maintainers of the translated document would update it= . > > That'd mean whenever a new translated manual is released, the > translators will need to update all the manuals that cross-reference > to the newly-released one, and users will then need to update their > manuals. Should be possible, of course, but quite a hassle, IMO. Well, they wouldn't *need* to update the manuals. The links to the English node names would still work as long as the translated manual has the @anchor commands with those node names. --_000_AS1P192MB1590A83E97F8A468EED71A1D84682AS1P192MB1590EURP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just to react to this comment : I fully agree that a translation should kee= p exactly the same anchor & node names. So that switching the language = is just a matter of replacing en by de, fr, ru, jp etc.

Emacs info viewer inserts the word =AB see =BB, even in French, before link= s, fortunately =AB see =BB does not mean anything wrong in French, but stil= l, this is a hassle. I wonder why this was done this way.

Also, a module like Calc finds function / command doc in the manual relying= on some search, so this way of doing should be generalized, and made langu= age independant if for other module than Calc people want to proceed this w= ay, and if they want have translation of the manual.

   V.
De : Gavin Smith <gavins= mith0123@gmail.com>
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 11 janvier 2024 21:37
=C0 : Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc : pertusus@free.fr <pertusus@free.fr>; jean.christophe= .helary@traductaire-libre.org <jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.= org>; stefankangas@gmail.com <stefankangas@gmail.com>; vincent.b.1= @hotmail.fr <vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr>; emacs-devel@gnu.org <emacs-devel@gnu.org>; rms@gnu.org <rms@gnu.org>; help-texinfo= @gnu.org <help-texinfo@gnu.org>
Objet : Re: @dircategory (Re: Translating Emacs manuals is of strate= gic importance)
 
On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 10:03:29PM +0200, Eli Zare= tskii wrote:
> > From: Gavin Smith <gavinsmith0123@gmail.com>
> > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:46:30 +0000
> > Cc: pertusus@free.fr, jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.or= g,
> >      stefankangas@gmail.com, vincent.b.1= @hotmail.fr, emacs-devel@gnu.org,
> >      rms@gnu.org, help-texinfo@gnu.org > >
> > > > Although it's not ideal, using cross-reference labels m= ay be the best
> > > > solution.  It would be a temporary solution if the= targetted manual
> > > > obtained an English translation later.  Once that = is the case, the
> > > > first manual could be updated with the translated node = name, so
> > > > "*note Choisir Tampon:(emacs)Select Buffer." = becomes
> > > > "*note (emacs)Choisir Tampon::", eliminating = the English.
> > >
> > > You mean, the Info reader should do that?  It would mea= n that the Info
> > > reader will need to access all its cross-manual links in a n= ode before
> > > it can display the node with or without the English node nam= es.
> >
> > I meant that the maintainers of the translated document would upd= ate it.
>
> That'd mean whenever a new translated manual is released, the
> translators will need to update all the manuals that cross-reference > to the newly-released one, and users will then need to update their > manuals.  Should be possible, of course, but quite a hassle, IMO.=

Well, they wouldn't *need* to update the manuals.  The links to the English node names would still work as long as the translated manual
has the @anchor commands with those node names.
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