From: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@live.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, enometh@meer.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Motif support
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 23:47:00 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <AM9PR09MB4977D2334B77CA89AEADA690967E9@AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <837dbvuql6.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 23 Dec 2021 20:24:37 +0200")
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@live.com>
>> Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, enometh@meer.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 18:47:09 +0100
>>
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>> > That was basically the second time Po Lu implemented something in the
>> > display engine, and the first time he had to deal with layout code, so
>> > some guidance should be expected, for a complex piece of software that
>> > takes more than 40K LOC. From my POV, the guidance he needed was
>> > relatively minor; most of the discussion was about the various
>> > implementation strategies.
>> Of course guidance is needed and expected. I have no problem with that, I just
>> reac on him saying it is missinformation to say that Emacs is not so easy to
>> hack. You say it's complex, he says it's easy :).
>
> That's not a contradiction, however strange it may sound. Doing
> localized changes is relatively easy even in a complex piece of
> software. The guidance that is needed is just to point to the
> relevant functions.
>
>> And as said, amount of time he seems to have to spend on all kind of different
>> OS:s, Emacs parts and all different discussion seems to be quite
>> tremendous. Expecting everyone to have that time is unrealistic.
>
> The time you need for a change depends on how simple or complex the
> change is. Not everyone is expected to make significant changes,
> there's a lot of place for relatively simple ones.
>
>> But yes of course the guidance is needed for people new to it, and everyone
>> needs help; I have got help, and everyone else gets help, so it should be of
>> course. But nobody needs accusation for spreading missinformation when saying
>> things are complex and could be simpler.
>
> Accusations aside, I think your impression of the Emacs code being an
> impenetrable undocumented mess is way too extreme.
I didn't say it is "impentrenable undocumented mess", I said it could be
nicer. I also said it has got much better in later years, but 10k sloc files
with lots of if-defs are not very nice.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-12-23 22:47 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 168+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <878rwhbb91.fsf.ref@yahoo.com>
2021-12-19 2:04 ` Motif support Po Lu
2021-12-19 7:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-19 7:14 ` Po Lu
2021-12-19 7:35 ` Po Lu
2021-12-19 7:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-19 7:56 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2021-12-19 9:12 ` Po Lu
2021-12-19 10:38 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-12-19 10:41 ` Po Lu
2021-12-19 10:52 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-12-19 10:58 ` Po Lu
2021-12-19 11:07 ` Po Lu
2021-12-19 11:29 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-12-19 11:39 ` Po Lu
2021-12-19 12:05 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-12-19 12:23 ` Po Lu
2021-12-19 13:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-19 14:15 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-12-19 14:27 ` dick
2021-12-19 15:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-20 2:12 ` Aiko Kyle
2021-12-20 3:13 ` Po Lu
2021-12-20 4:16 ` Akira Kyle
2021-12-20 4:43 ` Po Lu
2021-12-20 16:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-20 19:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-12-20 19:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-20 19:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-12-20 21:07 ` Akira Kyle
2021-12-20 4:44 ` Richard Stallman
2021-12-20 4:56 ` Po Lu
2021-12-22 4:16 ` Richard Stallman
2021-12-22 4:40 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 3:43 ` Richard Stallman
2021-12-23 4:47 ` Po Lu
2021-12-19 11:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-19 11:29 ` Po Lu
2021-12-19 10:28 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-12-20 10:05 ` Robert Pluim
2021-12-20 10:15 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
[not found] ` <87ee671s9o.fsf@yahoo.com>
2021-12-20 10:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-12-21 1:01 ` Po Lu
2021-12-21 3:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-21 17:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-21 17:47 ` Robert Pluim
2021-12-21 17:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-21 18:02 ` Robert Pluim
2021-12-21 18:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-22 0:53 ` Po Lu
[not found] ` <875yrj1ro7.fsf@yahoo.com>
2021-12-21 5:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
[not found] ` <87a6gv1s47.fsf@yahoo.com>
2021-12-20 11:09 ` Robert Pluim
2021-12-20 19:32 ` Sean Whitton
2021-12-22 15:58 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-22 17:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-22 17:56 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-22 18:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-22 19:46 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-22 20:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-23 7:21 ` Madhu
2021-12-23 7:24 ` Madhu
2021-12-23 9:32 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-23 9:38 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 11:53 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-23 12:06 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 14:36 ` dick
2021-12-23 14:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-23 15:01 ` dick
2021-12-23 15:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-23 15:33 ` dick
2021-12-23 16:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-23 15:43 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-23 14:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-23 17:47 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-23 18:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-23 22:47 ` Arthur Miller [this message]
2021-12-19 8:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-12-19 9:13 ` Po Lu
2021-12-19 10:14 ` martin rudalics
2021-12-20 0:15 ` Madhu
2021-12-20 1:42 ` Po Lu
2021-12-20 1:42 ` Po Lu
2021-12-21 16:15 xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-21 16:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-21 17:58 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-21 18:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-21 18:28 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-21 18:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-21 19:18 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-21 19:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-22 0:51 ` Po Lu
2021-12-21 19:45 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-21 19:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-21 20:15 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-21 20:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-21 20:50 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-22 17:09 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-22 17:24 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-22 17:28 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-22 18:07 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-22 18:20 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-22 0:52 ` Po Lu
2021-12-22 16:39 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-22 17:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-22 17:59 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-23 0:58 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 10:48 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-23 10:54 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 11:10 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-23 11:17 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 12:40 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-23 12:46 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 16:41 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-23 18:05 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-23 18:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-23 18:57 ` dick
2021-12-23 19:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-23 19:04 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-23 19:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-24 0:40 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 22:41 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-22 17:26 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-22 17:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-22 19:14 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-22 19:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-22 20:08 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-12-22 20:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-22 23:44 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-23 0:53 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 0:53 ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2021-12-23 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-23 7:43 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-23 9:05 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 11:21 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-23 11:34 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 12:15 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-23 12:25 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 9:24 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-12-23 0:47 ` Po Lu
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-12-22 19:19 xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-22 19:35 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-22 19:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-22 20:24 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-12-23 6:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-23 7:58 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-23 8:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-23 11:46 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-23 11:52 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 12:43 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-23 12:52 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 17:35 ` Arthur Miller
2021-12-24 0:38 ` Po Lu
2021-12-24 1:17 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-24 1:24 ` Po Lu
2021-12-24 1:37 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-24 7:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-24 8:06 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-24 8:24 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-12-24 8:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-24 2:20 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-12-24 2:43 ` Po Lu
2021-12-24 7:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-24 0:46 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 15:05 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-23 15:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-23 11:37 xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-23 11:39 ` Po Lu
2021-12-23 11:45 ` xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-12-23 11:50 ` Po Lu
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