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References: <87im3qj092.fsf@iki.fi> <87mtt2jz4h.fsf@web.de> <87h7j9hu0l.fsf@web.de> <87zgx0gug3.fsf@web.de> <87zgwy952d.fsf@iki.fi> Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 16:06:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87zgwy952d.fsf@iki.fi> (Jarmo Hurri's message of "Thu, 13 May 2021 15:44:10 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (windows-nt) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-TMN: [uvK1DopMadNgJY9XjX6GBCayEDSALQu4] X-ClientProxiedBy: AM6P191CA0020.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:209:8b::33) To AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <82o8deg22n.fsf@live.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from HP-Laptop.homepc (81.232.177.30) by AM6P191CA0020.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:209:8b::33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4108.25 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 13 May 2021 14:06:56 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 47 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: eb92ea81-5cb0-43d3-f8fe-08d916185e45 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: VI1EUR06HT094: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 6Ve8bWRFZwagZPkx37r31MngW+GJrJHFdgVroGyuveI8aCNDWGgelMlEiS8PW5lPnw1+dOFPmN9TS+ZxdHuXtUmilwjkvZCk9Z73mwpeEPqo++ZGWspYBFeJ22fPQVwDJWRQIo6GOud3PlYSIB7XldM3xwoQV2Yh75Voz+PiNuPDQozAkUiUXvTLnvbyM1eWJa+Air33ZX71gJeR4XK2IcTX7pLO214td6D2qxt28RQfazCI4Kzu/ThmmIR96jt8JSvs9efVIxMNpC71pGoqhtem6qJpNC9T3idmw7g1CIIHE/TeLZOoFMbySqJPYXVLxQ28yd6wuJvDIGiuLALVF2WPES22KRYWPDYL0MXkQJ2+ABAy3faJ/T5wvo6Tb9R5wjxFkPdA+rB0mxicAjw/wg== X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: +NwS4ao6dpXtygp6nGMa0L7uxO1M+pgFO49frrXOl7oB70Vqfnfh5Vd5lFE37bqBSvkw60EJQSxilW4kD9dnoxVS9cOxi12oxhKnomdI7yAeNI9pO43DVg3Wm4B8RMqml10k/4yiVje281eaZzfkDw== X-OriginatorOrg: live.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: eb92ea81-5cb0-43d3-f8fe-08d916185e45 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 May 2021 14:06:57.5152 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: VI1EUR06FT033.eop-eur06.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1EUR06HT094 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=40.92.16.68; envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR06-AM7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: 6 X-Spam_score: 0.6 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1620915775; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=MoJd24DR6dnw5n7C/LLHoAAIwn0K1MTjAEQUKGujyM4=; b=HafeZj4AWnhut+FUVI3mZviS8y2UIQ5Ky65+T4xr15JqhEqfsH1AnQUzypI9CXpcr6/Wtf NhWADy78SP+Yj9mVHczpA/URCPsDeblAjLHDMbxNIZ0kJ938uGLoRChrQnvMKI0cN6ao0y h8u8SvK30uVzuXptaElC++iPla0lJJYwDjYBiJx0w8kyZdwxTJF7DPw1jXSATOPsmXX3ED YMo41/czrDw7NFmfAh1aLM7kBwLTYyhwN9QBxzOHup/8VLUTBOkUd5JZLshwDbcKWLSTwY H6RgEy/AMfDK7wiMjDgQ6IHANrsX6vVIITeidIs2joyFNdcn9HNMokY49A4yCg== ARC-Seal: i=2; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1620915775; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; b=b5h8kB4E2F2T6c/TJ70jjyUkda/Sd4Pf6hRTO+tqDtxxFeqvslfl6EZ8MLGa5baAsjP8yf 0X0tBgGqtW46esz4fzhjXDExrSA+ahSe95Tr5AHq2vitLOpv4VqZdDtg1RQsX0MRAeeJ3p VXqJvQPEFMMUvL2n372fk3CVme5xGuuv8FyrERhIJXgXNW/hHoiDuqJMCipkBo6B7BOtVi nS2KznsNc6Y6rJU+Yl9kflYLGGVSXhZ3cEIAFc4iR5mpV2afNFFGv79Me66gSV6M5XatYa bz+ilkVyoPSU/QAOG98Fo+mMlNpHzmbL4goNua4K3XbgtcRfeYmiMNIy1V89/g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=live.com header.s=selector1 header.b=iHa1Y9NO; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=live.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.15 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=live.com header.s=selector1 header.b=iHa1Y9NO; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=live.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 986E4169F8 X-Spam-Score: -4.15 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: jDmr3LK5vQb4 Jarmo Hurri writes: > Greetings. > > "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" writes: > >> Arthur Miller writes: >> >>> By the way, how difficult is to download one file from the internet >>> (ditaa.jar) if you are an user? >> >> That=A1=AFs not the point. The point is that every single user with a di= taa >> block has to do it. >> >> Ask the other way round: What is the benefit of removing ditaa from >> org? If you want to force most current org-ditaa users to unbreak >> their setup after update, there should be a significant tangible >> benefit. > > I agree. > > One thing I like about org is that most things work out of the box. If bundled ditaa is not compatible with jre installed on users computer, or there is no jre installed, and user is not a programmer or used to Java, how many steps it adds to such a user to sort out why org does not work for him/her "out of the box"? Just to save some experienced user an extra step, that probably does not even affect them since they already have java and ditaa on their computers. > Comparing ditaa to latex/java/C/such does not feel fair, since distros Ditaa requires jre to work. Should org distribute a version of jre too to make it sure it works on user computer "out of the box"?