From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding major or popular language modes to Emacs distribution Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 17:03:10 +0200 Message-ID: References: <875yvqa3qv.fsf@ypei.me> <87czpy1nyu.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfyuozmh.fsf@gnu.org> <87o89hznqy.fsf@posteo.net> <831r6doepi.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsutzlon.fsf@posteo.net> <83wno5my3p.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25258"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Philip Kaludercic , hi@ypei.me, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 28 17:04:40 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mJzst-0006Ng-FY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 17:04:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36736 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJzss-0001jc-CS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 11:04:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34960) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJzrb-000056-Vp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 11:03:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-db8eur06olkn2107.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.92.51.107]:34784 helo=EUR06-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJzrW-0005J0-6H; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 11:03:19 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=J4D4Is0hp3JJ6FOwhe06PgJuAy7bF6d2XhswFP433Ubtrk/pZBpsk6MfL0zw73O/amxVL6qbHnfsDbUIgQGBDXnLBQOGtNjuV+fiJwxqSJEvrlCJLHCq7UWcJL0wHveET+yxNYnlbusvNJM2keH/M27qi7bhwolDT0h2/7ivSR1x04lGqrkhR1WIv5Vl2tzx9qOU9bSKVi4A2QO1KFvWPPOOJskeAtAPMrRA3vTsfOtf2k2V7SfvU+XiEAgiILT6IK86BwMROK/LCSyBTK2FEnWRElVJQdqJaHfamOYHR7547B14P74oQXojDvAHLAjaNh8zH6brOr2kXr80nOwaZw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=7iJotw2rrSm5nrCL2mdnQ3Nbw/w8eDW/jOAxo3EoX/s=; b=O/+zhmmpWZSsHwQHLPeNJg775ravsbw6977CtWfQg0X8QutSvWzN0KGwpFs+ZW8GqNowDiPc0xY22KpIywp5AHYeadmv3cUHsM0zZMie7sUV1RcZRfuTKkN0qrLOl7TUAIUsKtmClw1uKvLiFJ6HfEuNlzjaU/cLqzbF1l/DCxQKMbNEIwQWol8GVHwZMmEyPvd2nuCa4SFGYsegKyU49Q+T5vV3qVTz1PGQ7oNbIUhqSmYJ+S/H2nGQ0PzVbXSqjVHa8vNM1IRtjvZN6enS6ZJS1I9lz52sykQlrMSTqPaKAu5f4h7NqyCxHpdMevIFxtykH9+VRAN0H7ExQKxCXA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=live.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=7iJotw2rrSm5nrCL2mdnQ3Nbw/w8eDW/jOAxo3EoX/s=; b=fy107/Rx6hkwfUwyPVwzvk3kAxOB6s7q4g9HOMQ7eU4Rrct6FFu8Y57xax2jK3Ri0UON0D2comDQgz5TBHQXgSy4GEBSQ6V0+Mef/eCecnpqjXEmjUqN5WglMOEdxe96ay4Ny2SMT5tAphcpsEDjCrRyDR3BsPZfbZt/3tC2H2prZ9xrbCeWFk9D3jdPYINW3iTfyNZmTp6jpA481ZerXEeN819pU72vMYNvxoex8hyVqobyyDs30edLLWQ8B4znR84ajdGv++o2z7Ev41ipp1GXBCJ1zvUUtzPiFLHOUIj/DmbdOSKuufC+ECWc0XfEKpB5sgFkZzmHmsTGDw5xIw== Original-Received: from VI1EUR06FT006.eop-eur06.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc37::45) by VI1EUR06HT228.eop-eur06.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc37::152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4457.17; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:03:11 +0000 Original-Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc37::40) by VI1EUR06FT006.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc37::103) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4457.17 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:03:11 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:27E135EC8149ADDFAC2E636F51353B006D657CAEDDFA647F70A09FA73A1CFC72; UpperCasedChecksum:18DA558938E618926EB8BAFAE672EF56FAB6B73783EF50140F25D2837F6B174C; SizeAsReceived:7602; Count:46 Original-Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::35f2:ac79:ee50:c46c]) by AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::35f2:ac79:ee50:c46c%8]) with mapi id 15.20.4457.023; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:03:11 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83wno5my3p.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 28 Aug 2021 17:40:26 +0300") X-TMN: [S2w7X7LR5TgNVgVN+U2cIs7PHYoqLChs] X-ClientProxiedBy: AM6PR0502CA0046.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:56::23) To AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <878s0llihd.fsf@live.com> X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Original-Received: from pascal.homepc (81.232.177.30) by AM6PR0502CA0046.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:56::23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4457.17 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:03:11 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 46 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: e11f8f10-0261-40e4-8c50-08d96a34f3d5 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: VI1EUR06HT228: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: CpwGcwKCw7a0WIBIE70iRuTMQSXyu2Aob+yyCqZccFzy4CUYNvEFeJGy1Kh9V9fGutL+Z+mDlyEmV+fm3js7g9laVolHFVxL6U+8mpTgmVp11gILzLAjJawiQG+UnH+UyX/pbnfWRhK/hoVcCdslmFVseer6ISooSZ0ywJOuMjwU1W1xmY1DbSdgUCgVYay06vgiHXKX1uXt7e7k0dtwTzjL05MR7FW1SWZf+v7gU70SnWeGn6z8DonFFVz5juD5XQzHuP1jxp6l+qX4dxkFIgTHb5qsoMVjlZ9J77hf3SxIg4hVCfC/89kHX5OfRR5iEqE+RBVK8J/yPrrrhPaksn6VV/elpW2aO0ZEgMzpnfos2+pOWlUWvb3KRD6qVthsIHCevRnAwpGCNu29QqKZ0uNE4uFvrt86R+SSaQ0XmxUaFqQTlC0x6J3ADjHQy+5x X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: UZwjHAOZNeV3HQxfB7XFbYDkVPAAgCpz799ZxGVxQvg3Q9CmvM0zxn2ARk0r869Oad5eg6i8XKZI//Tqe1611V4Q/TvTy+X8Ml44qDnBXKamf4SZklhdRtOV2Q3CrQ4DAvfU2OJA2PjQclmwajXzWQ== X-OriginatorOrg: live.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e11f8f10-0261-40e4-8c50-08d96a34f3d5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2021 15:03:11.4593 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: VI1EUR06FT006.eop-eur06.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1EUR06HT228 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=40.92.51.107; envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR06-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273318 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Philip Kaludercic >> Cc: hi@ypei.me, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 14:30:16 +0000 >> >> > We should definitely make the PL modes more consistent wrt the basic >> > key bindings. But having sch packages in ELPA doesn't help solving >> > this problem, because it's an orthogonal issue, right? >> >> Yes, I was jut mentioning that if there ever were a push to include more >> major modes in Emacs, that something like this might be worth >> considering. > > To clarify, I was only talking about programming languages that are > very popular -- I think Emacs should offer those OOTB. I didn't mean > we should necessarily have in core every possible language under the > sun. We could discuss the less popular ones on a case by case basis. What I was thinking of is that some of prog modes that ship with Emacs are frankly not very good compared to external packages, and people are anyway downloading something else (for exapel js vs js2 or lisp vs slime/sly). It would be nice if everything was in Emacs by default but, maybe it is better to lessen the burden on Emacs devs themselves and point users to external package instead. Now that we have non gnu elpa, and Stefan says it is no problem to ship someone elses packages, maybe some good soul could package those into non gnu elpa and Emacs could do like some other text editors, simply point users to download needed package or download it on demand? There was no non gnu elpa before, maybe you could revise the policy in that light? After this sotrom about Git and workflow has blow away of course :).