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From: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@live.com>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Easy configuration of a site-lisp directory
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 17:58:00 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <AM9PR09MB49776E7820ED9EBD94FDE9FC96C79@AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87mtp45yp1.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Thu,  26 Aug 2021 09:42:50 +0000")

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

> Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@live.com> writes:
>
>> I think that something like what you propose is OK for you who are developer and
>> know what you do. But if you put something like this on auto in Emacs, I think
>> that lots of people with get troubles which can lead to even more frequent mailing
>> list :).
>
> I guess this depends on whether or not this would be enabled by default
> or not. My suggestion uses ~/.emacs.d/site-lisp by default if it
> exists. I get what you mean that this might be an issue, so it something
> like this could (and probably should) be disabled by default, but easy
> to activate.
>
>>> If there is some critical change or something that isn't ready yet, I'd
>>> just use "git stash".
>>>
>>>> What you are suggesting is to effectively use "site-lisp" as another
>>>> package-user-dir (~/.emacs.d/elpa on my machine). You are also auto
>>>> recursing in all dirs, so if user wish to remove something they have to
>>>> remove that directory from the path?
>>>
>>> Yes, but I hesitate to compare it to package-user-dir, as to me packages
>>> stand in relation to some package manager, while site-lisp.el only
>>> implements the bare minimum.
>>
>> Exactly. I am not sure if it is even the bare miniumum. 
>>
>> Bringing in paths and code in Emacs, is just but one part of package
>> management. Installling dependencies and also uninstalling everything correctly,
>> not leaving orphaned pacakges behind or removing something still needed is as
>> important as well. For that reason I think that going through package.el would
>> be a better idea.
>
> I think I agree. package-list-packages already lists different
> package states (available, installed, built-in, ...) so it might also
> make sense to have a "local" package as well.
>
>> Everyone's setup is of course private, but I don't think that is a 
>> good idea and good alternative to proper package management. For the same reason
>> why we don't install packages manually in our gnu/linux distributions but use
>> some sort of package management system. Doing manually ./configure - make dance
>> is nowdays considered a bad practice.
>
> I'm not sure, it depends on what you are doing. package managers usually
> don't expect the user to change the software that has been
> installed. You usually only get a binary version and any modification
> will be overridden. If you want to work on some software, and actually
> use your software freedom, you have to do the ./configure-make-dance.

Of course, but usually number of packages one works on and number of installed
packages is not as nearly as same. I do run Emacs form the source dir. But Emacs
and few others are excpetion.

> I'm not sure, it depends on what you are doing. package managers usually
> don't expect the user to change the software that has been
> installed. You usually only get a binary version and any modification
> will be overridden. 

Yes, so it is, and that does not really suit package development in Emacs.
So we would probably need something that goes well with development. 

I think that times have have changed, git and web service indeed has
revolutinionized the way people, share and contrubute with each other. Also
hackability of Emacs and lisp are a bit unique. So we probably need something
that works well with git, at least for now (nothign says git is given for all
times).

What about having something like 'package-install-dev' which will install dev
sources, git repo and do what Stefan suggested he does in elpa-adming.el?

Of course could be options to install all packages as 'dev', or have a list of
'dev' or some other way to controll this automatically.




  reply	other threads:[~2021-08-26 15:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-08-08 15:40 Easy configuration of a site-lisp directory Philip Kaludercic
2021-08-08 18:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-08 18:53   ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-08-08 20:03     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-08 22:43   ` dick
2021-08-08 23:16     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-09  0:43       ` dick
2021-08-09  3:13         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-08-09 16:59           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-09 18:33             ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-08-09 18:49               ` dick
2021-08-09 22:11                 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-08-10  8:24                   ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-10  8:31                 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-09 18:52               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-09 22:14                 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-08-10 11:55                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-10  8:10               ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-10 12:06                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-10 13:43                   ` Yuri Khan
2021-08-10 14:01                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-10 15:10                       ` Yuri Khan
2021-08-10 15:39                         ` dick
2021-08-10 15:49                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-10 17:31                           ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-10 15:44                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-10 17:25                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-08-10 17:50                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-10 18:06                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-08-10 18:23                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-10 20:51                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-11  2:23                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-11  5:31                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-11 13:42                                     ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-08-11 16:34                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-11 18:21                                         ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-08-12  5:48                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-10 17:35                         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-08-10 17:24                     ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-10 17:22                   ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-10 17:45                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-09  6:52     ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-09 11:50       ` dick
2021-08-09 15:27         ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-19  9:25 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-08-19 20:24   ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-19 21:43     ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-19 21:47       ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-19 21:59         ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-08-20  0:21           ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-20 21:36             ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-21  1:56               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-21  2:46                 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-21  3:12                   ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-21  6:39                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-21  6:48                       ` tomas
2021-08-21  7:00                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-21  7:19                           ` symlinks and W32 [was: Easy configuration of a site-lisp directory] tomas
2021-08-21 14:15                             ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-21 14:20                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-21 19:12                                 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-21 14:34                       ` Easy configuration of a site-lisp directory Arthur Miller
2021-08-21 14:42                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-21 19:10                           ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-21 19:18                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-21 20:25                               ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22  6:03                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-25 10:47     ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-08-25 22:13       ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-26  9:42         ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-08-26 15:58           ` Arthur Miller [this message]
2021-08-20 10:23   ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-08-20 12:47     ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-23  9:14 ` Max Brieiev
2021-08-24 21:35   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-25 11:13     ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-08-25 14:37       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-25 14:55         ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-08-25 17:27           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-26  0:16             ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-26  4:10               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-26 15:38                 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-26 18:03                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-26 21:40                     ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-25 22:29           ` Arthur Miller
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-08-12  2:44 No Wayman
2021-08-12 12:41 ` dick
2021-08-12 14:48   ` No Wayman
2021-08-12 16:24     ` dick

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