From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Shrinking the C core Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2023 16:30:24 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87ledwx7sh.fsf@yahoo.com> <877cpfybhf.fsf@yahoo.com> <873503y66i.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h6oj4mle.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8728"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Po Lu , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 28 18:12:34 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qaeqt-0001vv-JI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 18:12:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qaeph-0008Gy-Dw; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR04-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 28 Aug 2023 12:11:16 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309443 Archived-At: Ihor Radchenko writes: > Po Lu writes: > >> Instead of denigrating the C language, Emacs's C core, and so many other >> components critical to Emacs that have been subject to unjustified >> invective in recent times, why not direct your attention to a more >> productive task, such as identifying the complex interdependencies >> between different pieces of Emacs's global state to establish a detailed >> plan for their interlocking? For this task, the most important tool is >> a control-flow visualizer such as cflow, and an ample supply of paper. > > And we tried to dig into this question in > https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/871qhnr4ty.fsf@localhost/ > At least, the task does not look impossible. That was a long thread to say mildly :) I don't have time to read all that, but thanks for the pointer. To answer shortly. Po has narrowed this to be a discussion about threading only, which certainly wasn't my intention; I see it as an important part, but there are other importnat aspects which would benefit Emacs than just multithreading. I generally agree with you, even with Po; I think it is possible in some way, I never said it is impossible to rework Emacs. For example if we could instantiate the interpretter on its own, with an empty state, than you could perhaps run that in a separate thread, but I am affraid everything is just one big state and would mean some refactoring. I am not sure if sitting and trying to puzzle pieces to interlock during the execution as Po suggests is a very good idea. Again *anything* is possible, but that sounds like a very tedious and error prone strategy to me. I can't read the entire thread, there are tens if not 100s of posts there, so I don't know what you have come up with. However, my thesis was not that it is impossible to do in Emacs, but that there is a lisp machine that already has figured out that work.