From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 16:05:32 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87ilzyktqy.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9576"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Daniel Colascione , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 22 16:06:54 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mHo7h-0002JA-AE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 22 Aug 2021 16:06:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37320 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mHo7f-0003De-UE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 22 Aug 2021 10:06:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48726) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mHo6b-0002So-Dr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Aug 2021 10:05:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oln040092069044.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.92.69.44]:54863 helo=EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mHo6W-000151-G3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Aug 2021 10:05:45 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=UKnYSTq7MeJikUHl6X3NLzWXGg3asJ0zTSM1pKz/Qb0ONa7L/6wEASWqyKE/59zavVFw3+DW8K/bvwsl5WQZxVkGB1K+3Sj6+M5TELP0zAetjIDEE/AkWOv0TNT2ZJuarxJ2C/sNTmgG8MQPY0RQKFPNhJVEar+IHnCeQpSP2Q90OqlO4LW+xU6qZqDkaQ2SeVm4FPahDAW8hN2tTT96+LPdNaFwhpky8Gv3+fptT8nJSKd7e1IImcaC0v6qmMfxtc41aG2+r7ycgXOAOVax/YQQy3ulfEp40V9xSHLBaxruk8hcR5j1E8VvSyy8s6fO/q+cTWf3NNNu2Fl528tpkA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=4FdfMy0ijEtnO4lgVUYvXoobt8mJMrDq+jK/Oo8BZ1U=; b=kYkDY4ST3MXPHRUKQiKcnBNlyTXuxHHOfQP8dIRJvx1mJF6i6t30kqDECtkeD8fQDtCnzS66w1uh/rh7c8mnrrjFj71lrrosa4bv9jqp5yBki8b4pvbaxdOK4cGK7eyFLiqaGFO0WNXSWMdXd2tBJ/l//Bt5vIVbuPQCev7vOhbPG/ljFmrMnqqddCYPCZi7+ur55c3eXiZyhSmoeiI8QSMQ3fNQr2t3GNNWcefeij7HjYGBk4soUyjEUdw/NvDP387rcrgSw0ED0YAwrnR0AR1JCu4YoNC3cWZC3xHu8xybs5BLUYgVM0EMq+ZJgUcISR0rw7ne4IFV69ISfdc/wA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=live.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=4FdfMy0ijEtnO4lgVUYvXoobt8mJMrDq+jK/Oo8BZ1U=; b=M0iDdcmc+XJjj6tw9oqeJbXbRgAId0+0FkBM68KWz+l+4nZPp4BH0xY7o7mZPhdF5pmRRQ3Knov/o6NaX046v7+L3Tb+VRAKqAWP9AMtNeYBxkpBWz2qooPbnGWapeJ5GC9yIh+tWGht+bqfzUTzxsA3UzW6nHPZWKUaF8KsSZ08LYnJ+KiqPiUduT3JW82EKRCa0HDw1qYxBjZEDlS2lTrG8f3WOeasBiG5jx2crAOgbGttPO2OlPcrGk6r6lSUZSLD0F1hBg3sIy5R7LQwcIkCEN2NY55pq8LDSERO1vSBE8lUUDUQgRvU4+Jbk2CZJ8CTI9xYQA9GCWdpl3VKEg== Original-Received: from AM5EUR02FT044.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e1c::48) by AM5EUR02HT108.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e1c::442) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4436.19; Sun, 22 Aug 2021 14:05:33 +0000 Original-Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e1c::4e) by AM5EUR02FT044.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e1c::357) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4436.19 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 22 Aug 2021 14:05:33 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:240F325A7CA29F79DDA0F1124806F4C18724821E1E692892C2B1C86831293683; UpperCasedChecksum:F7216AF65EE4ACF5F373AC64A1227F54FE356123A1BF6B0FEC6EF803EEB3870A; SizeAsReceived:8681; Count:47 Original-Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b483:471e:6dc2:12ae]) by AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b483:471e:6dc2:12ae%9]) with mapi id 15.20.4436.024; Sun, 22 Aug 2021 14:05:33 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87ilzyktqy.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Sun, 22 Aug 2021 11:37:01 +0300") X-TMN: [ZwQTw6Sa3HRdQLcrK2lc5MiydpAYCCkD] X-ClientProxiedBy: AM6P193CA0103.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:209:88::44) To AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87tujhmv6b.fsf@live.com> X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Original-Received: from pascal.homepc (81.232.177.30) by AM6P193CA0103.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:209:88::44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4436.19 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 22 Aug 2021 14:05:33 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 47 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: fb7e1498-aad7-414c-9ea6-08d96575e84b X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM5EUR02HT108: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: eflLKKxeRsqqObh57+WSnWmec21HC3eZU3ETrFWC/qQgm2cT9JQPNMq4tU4m5matTCjb+R1Tqp2AvxWSDBkyAoy6+WJ4r54/deEErytiyUUNBexd9g6AYa5m5M/0qnjLqyCwV2ObXgEaWNOwFtJB2RsipKfzAtq3sSzetu30p640wwBUsoCDaU9zaCQJKtx2gTCUWeL+mRxiOLi/1OS4gYSrN1IvxQ0sG9E92vK3t15FXy9yTuEnbKJiTl97jpP519uUKRtbqc9uHMsJx6RY9vW5TZ71fhOBHq4pxfdniHbgOZdglbUZNABOSqt0oW7LRSReOkHQqk4a4/JaulMWt/IJEn/P32sZW+sP8csebgNEy8wlD09lq0/lWSo3THeNgcNing+PGCO9iifFBpR+eZy6b+FGSzRpUT9qFmHF5wyi2qz464vSA9Pzce+aGgFd X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: YuTmUAz4e1+dCgdVtot9dOstwF171AknHkmO77ZAFZdmNO5RJCj1sB/Y0res/T41GOomwftgd79ZE9oMgmC1YOk23vlDgvFbfhF8LKw/Vwqk+3BheA6uMKfKCUXoYnNM5bmXG/VDiZPGKDwfr2S6lQ== X-OriginatorOrg: live.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fb7e1498-aad7-414c-9ea6-08d96575e84b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Aug 2021 14:05:33.6736 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM5EUR02FT044.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5EUR02HT108 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=40.92.69.44; envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:272837 Archived-At: Juri Linkov writes: >> How about we set up these bindings instead? >> >> C-x 4 C-/ winner-undo >> >> M-- C-x 4 C-/ winner-redo >> >> This way, a winner undo has the same binding as editing undo, but under = C-x >> 4, which means window management stuff. >> >> (Also: is there any reason we shouldn't enable winner by default?) >> >> Likewise, for windmove, we can bind C-x 4 {left, right, up, down} and DW= IM >> for people automatically, enabled by default. > > This reminds the recent development of the context menu. > The idea to enable the context menu by default was nice > where quickly clicking mouse-3 will retain its current functionality > of operating on the region, but after a delay to pop up the menu. > But in practice such artificial delay is a hassle - no one would have > patience to wait even half a second until the menu finally appears. > > The same applies to longer keybindings. It would be nice to provide the > default long keybindings, but they are unusable for frequent usage becaus= e > require more time to type the keys. So maybe longer keybindings could be > set only to "advertise" the availability of such feature until the packag= e > is loaded and defines shorter keys. I think "Advertise a feature" is a good term. That is why I said, I don't care about bindings. Bu the way, text undo seems to be bound to several key beyndings, amongst them C-x u and C-x U: "C-x u (translated from C-x U) runs the command undo (found in global-map),= which is an interactive native compiled Lisp function in =E2=80=98simple.el=E2=80= =99." What about geaving C-x U to winner undo. That would make C-x u work on text, and C-x U work on windows. Kind of similar logic but simpler binding.