From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Would there be a drawback of using the same graphical toolkit on every platform? 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR02-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:136061 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > Arthur Miller writes: > >> That is because Emacs reverse the framowork roles, which does not work >> always well with toolkits that are designed to be in driving seat of >> the application main loop and display. There is an interesting post >> about Emacs and how it threats graphical displays by D. Colascione who >> I believe implemented, or helped to implement double buffering in >> Emacs: >> >> https://m.facebook.com/nt/screen/?params=%7B%22note_id%22%3A10107017870677858%7D&path=%2Fnotes%2Fnote%2F&refsrc=deprecated&_rdr > > That article is misleading. Is it? > The GLib (GTK) event loop is the least of our problems, which is handled > very well with a small amount of code in xgselect.c. That toolkit has > its own ideas of how not to listen to the programmer which makes it very > annoying to deal with (i.e. in both the X and PGTK builds, it keeps > fighting with Emacs over the size of frames, and it's the only build > where `scroll-bar-width' doesn't work.) > > It also has various bugs in features the developers deem uncommon, such > as crashing when a display connection is closed. Several entire desktops and countless applications implemented with Gtk for different OS:s certainly speak in favor of your arguments. Cetainly it must be problem to Gtk and someone elses incompetence, can't be that Emacs is using it in a manner it wasn't supposed to be used. > Using GTK all by itself also leads to various missing features and > problems with keyboard input. There was a thread on emacs-devel about > it lately, and countless bug reports, which cannot be resolved. > > The event loop is certainly not the problem, since none of these > problems are present in the Haiku port where the event loop for each > window is run by the toolkit itself in a separate thread, or in an X or > Xt build where Emacs drives the event loop with pselect, XPending, and > XtDispatchEvent. So Gtk should be designed as Haiku? Otherwise it is a bug? :) You can either do as you do and consider a framework design to be a bug because it does not fit into your wishful expectations, or you can recognize that the design does not fit a particular application in this case Emacs. There is nothing wrong with that, none framework is required to fit each and every use case in existence. Emacs uses Gtk in a way it is not supposed to and that creates some friction. I don't understand why you need to blame that on Gtk? I am not even very fond of Gtk myself, but there is no reason to be unfair.