From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Easy configuration of a site-lisp directory Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2021 17:27:06 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87y29cj65y.fsf@posteo.net> <87czqna77n.fsf@dick> <8735rialb1.fsf@dick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38431"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: dick Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 09 17:28:27 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mD7CU-0009nB-2n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR06-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -1 X-Spam_score: -0.2 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:272235 Archived-At: dick writes: >> Never heard of Elpaso before. What is the advantage compared to straight? > > It embraces package.el. Straight would prefer its users eliminate all > package.el configuration. As I am a contemptuous (and contemptible) being, > I'll take this opportunity to badmouth straight. Its answer to GNU ELPA being > "stupidly complex" was hosting a Heroku mirror to "bypass terrible package > management decisions" and to avoid having to understand the elpa-admin > code. [1] One particularly unsightly side effect of this is 50 lines of gnarly > elisp to get around org-mode's needing a preliminary call to `make`. Ok. thanks for the bird view. I actually took some time to skimm through the github page, I red now that it is an explicit goal to be incompatible with package.el. > It's also impossible to take seriously a README that is 23,000 words, Well, I don't think author ment you to take him seriously in all those words either :-): "straight.el frees you from needing to think about package management, since I already did all the thinking to figure how best to design everything." He does have humour. > My reading of r/emacs suggests roughly half the forum's enthusiasts > use straight, not to mention all the zoomer doomers. Yes, straight seems to be very popular. I don't use it myself, but as I understand people really like to be able to just auto-download code from some online git repo. Doom indeed has added a lot to it's popularity. >> a centralized reviewed source is also at least some security safety net. > > Statements like this only encourage the invidious-minded among us to "check > your privilege." It's obvious to everyone that baseline measures like > package-signing or secure http only ensure the trojan horse you're getting is > authentically the trojan horse that my blackhat alias wrote. The ELPAs rely > on our good faith and the limited financial upside of exploiting a userbase of > our modest size (and probably modest means -- emacsers use free software not > only for philosophical reasons!). Well I hope that someone who is managing Elpa (Stefans?) is looking at what people contribute to it. With looking at I mean, looking like in a "code review"? At least that seems to be case with Melpa. But yes, in general, of course, it is a weak guarantee, but for non-developers it is at least some guarantee. For a developer it is probably no brainer to decide if something is bull or OK, I use loads of lisp code form people's gits, emacs wiki and other places which are not in elpa/melpa repos, but for some random Joe who never opened a lisp file it can be a difference between opening the computer to maffia or running something secure. I admit that it indeed is a low risk considering current (im)popularity of Emacs, but I wouldn't count on that one. > [1] https://github.com/raxod502/straight.el/issues/762#issuecomment-841859211