From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding Emms to ELPA (take 2), and a technical question Date: Fri, 01 May 2020 16:07:29 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87pnbwg0up.fsf@rabkins.net> <87lfmfbuxz.fsf@rabkins.net> <87r1w53ug4.fsf@rabkins.net> <87ftckupvx.fsf@fastmail.fm> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="29753"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Joost Kremers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 01 16:23:24 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jUWZX-0007cp-BD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 May 2020 16:23:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60516 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUWZW-0001p3-CP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 May 2020 10:23:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41884) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUWYp-0000hf-Tu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2020 10:22:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUWYn-0005vt-EW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2020 10:22:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oln040092073098.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.92.73.98]:38453 helo=EUR04-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUWYm-0005s1-Kv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2020 10:22:37 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=cmRyrgZvv1vt6EH/7sV26Ftrq8SQcEz0vnuSrZAZQhyrbNQigwj1yOScC67NAzZFssb5TTpkEEMPCAwCGrU9olOYleKIkudOlmKANoy+4G50XUkhsCUvgxnoJQn38GWqz36ZTMEuITJaLA26jPAWIKnfGjM2rwzKe0hcbYkV57tzvsoaNpWgO3AQmjEUkHTmUFEjEC9MaZ5SYMEGNtXp802RMTS5zBMFAGVU1DkI+FukLuPD5jMq5PMQ3Kc0ND04+AaeQv0pB85Jj8jUpOVLg2zp6HfLYs/tSemlXthJOe5dkopiXzJKRjtSF0fFggu6Upb6gqKp+IKMxT5G4vWTmg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=BSRoO5VOmH2zNMj2hDQGvp3bf8/89j7bp0/Fj/stKpc=; b=YZD2rFFt5+fFihVf9xH0oRnxSHL0oU5nWqEsYfz15AmDKoWkggXrixDj4j3buDh7kBQcx9K1bIiIzDZAz2gq8P5nIID2jJfKisQELNZ1glVVqXF1GXKSpFdD8fvvlNakpsfZ+7ezWY5jTAarTUpW0D+cwsa+LuRLwwWday9F/4NQHlHR76nw9F4BTm6bMRxgsTv4+OvPVsWku9Uv7xzaEQ5tOSABAg1X6AcEth9hhHvgiE0A5k5gNaEAHXSiltiRWBNZbw7rFiOYuOj6Z1bNel7obb+gfriNeXQ0vyj6EYFUGdih0W0wuhySoghv4VhheUNkWYOZV9Sz8ukCOVlS1A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=live.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=live.com; dkim=pass header.d=live.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=live.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=BSRoO5VOmH2zNMj2hDQGvp3bf8/89j7bp0/Fj/stKpc=; b=P3EB/eA8h9kp0XlWnLeVQ6ywNsOZ6wRcyrILvHwCJQmFL1t1lM17nF3jyYRLVk0KoYCKLSqdbxudOaKUUsWIOs4FOE0wtlnRK5rueVHq79JY4OYuS7a7oQNv58tbmV2Xc3vN3l0xZ9qsvnbTBoq6J11/fzHlcHSgoJbX/vEJhlabsQAyJhrTuNEpw5pzTKSF9gfDi5Xexo5T3/Y3ZpkaenTVfImBvcoB/cP3nlsEgpgVYVmD4kwZ7FEwCDG4pUO0y2atCxuiLqsZOyO/wvA/KnmyoSPTDIBzhWww0DPAJKoUZH3fbF0fy9PQk0Ybvso+JSx727RI06SWRc3TbxNnVg== Original-Received: from DB3EUR04FT036.eop-eur04.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e0c::4d) by DB3EUR04HT141.eop-eur04.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e0c::104) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2958.19; Fri, 1 May 2020 14:07:31 +0000 Original-Received: from AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e0c::41) by DB3EUR04FT036.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e0c::81) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2958.19 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 1 May 2020 14:07:31 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:2F6CDAE37E4FC314963D7587F19D66E59515DA8106D048F7E740A932BE7FC3A7; UpperCasedChecksum:62FE1CA99D33C1191160BDE2328AE98B49FD4E77E958A00BC2EE95BD7FD73B87; SizeAsReceived:8931; Count:49 Original-Received: from AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::849f:536a:6aab:16]) by AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::849f:536a:6aab:16%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2937.028; Fri, 1 May 2020 14:07:31 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87ftckupvx.fsf@fastmail.fm> (Joost Kremers's message of "Fri, 01 May 2020 08:32:18 +0200") X-ClientProxiedBy: AM6PR08CA0039.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:c0::27) To AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:1a2::19) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87v9lfd9zy.fsf@live.com> X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Original-Received: from pascal.homepc (90.230.29.56) by AM6PR08CA0039.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:c0::27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2958.20 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 1 May 2020 14:07:30 +0000 X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87v9lfd9zy.fsf@live.com> X-TMN: [f22HKOZuzwMw1E/O9HiTEjUsM7Io+0KY] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 49 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: f769e88d-2354-4f55-1be9-08d7edd8fcbe X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DB3EUR04HT141: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 2gh2LBhIn3uRdHHsyRWCstroU/rLO6YY9jJSHgLy5PoZDvDG3PNqwCLXtJsclVUosIjlCsrMjsrbD1+ltmbXRQEoA1bjTMooYY+IO3W/sNeEbFoKHuOPJB4pnminBQ1i4BBJgao7u8MYCz+pHpk3+W19fbKaEdhwYTmS+lkLMR9UEoTPqfOQ1vzVTariQ2jERdAdeGzissTa/H8zl2CPig== X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM0PR06MB6420.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: n3inhtzqlTcKR2h9wPNmOw+dlWIMYhzysDcCOPESwmmPjMfmqbu1Jt+5XZyWkfJIbyHuGmCK85gbcWXiiXHjTtpqIE0ZLqW98TAL0GRbokUz8Jyny7tg/SKByYga2MgXblvi63Vi7ZT9O7dWkUI8jg== X-OriginatorOrg: live.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f769e88d-2354-4f55-1be9-08d7edd8fcbe X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2020 14:07:30.9472 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB3EUR04HT141 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=40.92.73.98; envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR04-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/01 10:22:34 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows NT kernel [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 40.92.73.98 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248302 Archived-At: Joost Kremers writes: > On Fri, May 01 2020, Richard Stallman wrote: >> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] >> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] >> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] >> >> Lots of packages require building and that uses tools. >> Emacs, for instance, needs various tools to build it, >> including a C compiler. Nothing wrong or unusual there. >> >> What alarms me about pdf-tools is that it tries to install those tools >> itself rather than leaving the user in control of that step. > > Mind you, pdf-tools does ask the user for permission first and it pops up= a > buffer where you can follow what is happening. > > Honestly, as a user of pdf-tools, I'm glad this happen automatically if I= choose > to. Saves me from opening a shell and copy&pasting a bunch of commands. How would you do it? Get Emacs to install and compile pdf tools from the source, or just to call the package manager from the distribution/OS of choice, which I sure are as many as users here. I am defenetly more happy installing applications through package manager from my distribution then through Emacs. Mostly because of updates and dependencies with other applications. Will Emacs also track when those tools are updated, bugs fixed etc? Unless you would to turn Emacs into OS package manager a l=C3=A1 pacman, rp= m, etc, which I wouldn't mind by the way, but I don't think Emacs is there. Also pdf-tools are used by other applications in system so it is easy to get them in any distro, inclusive proprietary OS:s(Win, Mac). Why shoujld pdf-tools be different then any other tool we use in Emacs (binutils, compilers, debuggers, grep, ag, you-name-it)?