From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gdb in emacs 24 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 09:37:45 -0400 Message-ID: References: <8B7ECBAB-1981-408C-8AF7-D171385F727C@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1244.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1317908293 17595 80.91.229.12 (6 Oct 2011 13:38:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 13:38:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 06 15:38:04 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RBo9D-0006QR-NI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2011 15:38:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40452 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBo9D-0004CI-7C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:38:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:43367) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBo9A-0004CB-CZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:38:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBo94-00072s-He for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:38:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qy0-f176.google.com ([209.85.216.176]:39116) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBo8y-0006rc-8U; Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:37:48 -0400 Original-Received: by qyk27 with SMTP id 27so2810303qyk.0 for ; Thu, 06 Oct 2011 06:37:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=uAXjhzPpa9tpOHzwIn/s84lUb60jdtAHH/FMPB6hKiY=; b=KtNjRmKSaHX/lYuOAIALY2++nyqHGFE9LPWZVbBC0FZ2CixcnOlATZLRkFvG3C+fwu wI+4C3DLlQTP5n6aPIdI8Oyyn9lWpYKH2dc+OHRHu2i0aoIpX2pgVrqCaS7mGNqcyZTE NAdQKEQ//QmZCWPlOgsBDNVTCRisimhbP+kQ8= Original-Received: by 10.229.59.137 with SMTP id l9mr562742qch.70.1317908267774; Thu, 06 Oct 2011 06:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from elin.local (pool-71-182-161-44.pitbpa.east.verizon.net. [71.182.161.44]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gu10sm6419696qab.2.2011.10.06.06.37.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 06 Oct 2011 06:37:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1244.3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.216.176 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144613 Archived-At: On Oct 6, 2011, at 7:25 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> The very first line of the doc string says: >>>=20 >>> gdb is an interactive autoloaded Lisp function in `gdb-mi.el'. >>> ^^^^^^^^^ >>=20 >> So, you're now asking users to infer the interface between GDB and = Emacs from file names of the source file? >=20 > Huh? did you even read the message to which I was responding? A user > asked why her ELisp function stopped working in Emacs 24. That > function used "--annotate=3D3" switch to GDB. I responded that since > Emacs 24 switched to using the MI interface to GDB, using --annotate > is expected to fail. There must be a misunderstanding. Here's what you said: > If you "C-h f gdb RET", you will see that Emacs 24 switched to use the > GDB/MI interface, so the --annotate=3D3 thingy is no longer TRT, and = I'm > quite sure it will interfere in "interesting" ways. And I pointed out that you couldn't actually infer the switch to the new = interface from the doc string of `gdb'. You responded by underlining the name of the source file. =20 And my point is that this is insufficient to get the user to use a = different argument for gdb. (Clicking on the source file gets me to the = definition of `gdb', and I have to scroll to the commentary on page 2 of = the source code to find something about MI. (The commentary actually = says " It runs gdb with GDB/MI (-interp=3Dmi)", which would lead me to = infer that I don't have to give gdb further arguments on my own!) = Apologies if that wasn't clear. In general: 1. The user doesn't care about how Emacs GDB and the underlying gdb = communicate, and how that changes between Emacs versions - nor should = they have to care. 2. The user can't be expected to deal with gdb's command line arguments, = beyond the path of the executable anyway. They're debugging their own = program and that's complicated enough. Tools should be seamless. 3. Don't expect the user to read documentation for Emacs functions = between upgrades of Emacs. Most users, today, won't read documentation = at all. They have to read API documentation for the program their = writing, that's enough. None of these have to do with users being "stupid". Everyone has = attentional limitations. PS.: thanks to everybody for keeping GDB in Emacs working, even with my = ancient version/fork of GDB. It makes life much easier.=