From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: VC menu ? Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 11:26:28 +0900 Message-ID: References: <878tk1erfz.fsf@holos> <87y3s1ll4o.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87d19d6pf3.fsf@holos> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1499395157 18324 195.159.176.226 (7 Jul 2017 02:39:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 02:39:17 +0000 (UTC) To: Emacs-Devel devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 07 04:39:12 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dTJAm-0004Vv-1C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 04:39:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54178 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTJAr-0007SB-4i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 22:39:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36140) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTIzM-0005fW-VM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 22:27:25 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTIzJ-0002xh-SP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 22:27:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf0-x22f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22f]:35655) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTIzJ-0002xV-Ll for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 22:27:21 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id c73so9764908pfk.2 for ; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 19:27:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=Fp/fLzuHBuxrVbpc6jCoUClVG28zbacSW7gvZ99NwcQ=; b=T5bw+cdddEtlvHKhTXDl4MtTq9WGbWKRux/UG/K/TRXORTpRcwD9S/icvI8kYEJCxy j7LTBlkS9AqFrXk+JKmDdJySNgT9QzuE75C+LbdR6xI+7NZPAfTNNhbK/gg6Is1i4684 PXXVrEyOckdqA+7xh1jXTdWU1bVT+DSiaClI39k0KBnwU9QhQnxzIm1k+pQnJhcH76Dh vvS/dRedy1UhLxw8m6Uyti4CwGWc+ZX8QjjgOHONTFJRM02UZp2cJNo5zGq+2oa9E185 nVxJ1ayvfp6O5dOGlQwi2/Lxnpu5BOsDRf5ZZGlOsbzVfTgsVXARGoHjBxe8fVC9iIfb STVQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=Fp/fLzuHBuxrVbpc6jCoUClVG28zbacSW7gvZ99NwcQ=; b=QKDIlhSo0wodPpdtLXJf/9A7LTzPzHqZMd4z9YuzN0M28kd7HwHGGtlH9PzbvgzCGP 6/dxwEKRCfwY1uk1ADLZtmhQziw/SmOmGx80pW3whjmgCc/98iHK7Ajt9qb0RejQ9iqb xMzkK9dXBSLRZDFLXejvRNWFEllgjqa8lygff3n6kFubCuZxTLnX1UGosQ1wTQ6HQKbe RXhynyMgb7y8+3+y69kxaccogmCr1hhsMzV6mcFj+FLVD17tF7rhiWx1PSm/HCOAiKGR eNJw/Ca0lVK8bYz7FCD3dRknehky74mTnAa4vHXwm/QtwaCRO5fzr5VcBNuDY8G/Nio2 XClA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111aRxRMI4HoKMEzMAdP45V3B+uadUIeujRB6onimU2kqzgaUDDc Ps5nE3csq7HS4buSPHNp9w== X-Received: by 10.98.202.12 with SMTP id n12mr29474447pfg.187.1499394440542; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.100.100] (KD106161162183.au-net.ne.jp. [106.161.162.183]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z5sm2430863pgr.35.2017.07.06.19.27.18 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Jul 2017 19:27:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87d19d6pf3.fsf@holos> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22f X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:216252 Archived-At: > On Jul 7, 2017, at 9:50, Mark Oteiza wrote: >=20 >=20 > Ted Zlatanov writes: >> On Thu, 06 Jul 2017 07:27:12 -0400 Mark Oteiza = wrote:=20 >> MO> Sarcasm aside, if you had ever flipped through the Emacs manual = or >> MO> scrolled through a list of keybindings, you would have been aware = of VC. >>=20 >> I think menu-driven UI discovery is fun and an essential part of the = GUI >> experience. >=20 > I agree. It's but one of many useful self-documenting facilities in > Emacs. Unfortunately the original poster thinks the others are silly = and > that the menu should spoon feed. Not all the "others". I think your sarcasm is not smart and not relevant = to the discussion, I also think (and I wrote) that it *is* silly to = consider equivalent the VC menu and the Games and some other menus in = the context of a development text editor where version control is a core = feature. I also consider not useful the a posteriori exemples of = "discoverability" that pop up every time there is a question similar to = the one I asked. Discoverability should not be confused with = exploration. I do understand Eli's considerations about screen real estate though, = even if I think with Ted and Oscar that VC should be considered a = special citizen of the top menu. Now, if you have anything of interest = to add to the discussion please do, otherwise I don't see much point = going on. Jean-Christophe=