From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: Issues with emacs Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:02:43 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87bokbb4zw.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1340546612 22148 80.91.229.3 (24 Jun 2012 14:03:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 14:03:32 +0000 (UTC) To: "'rusi'" , Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 24 16:03:31 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SinPU-0007Tz-Oq for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:03:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49255 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SinPU-0001X8-On for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:03:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51887) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SinPP-0001Wy-LF for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:03:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SinPN-00042o-SJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:03:23 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:26440) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SinPN-00042T-Lu for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:03:21 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q5OE3IPo021478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Jun 2012 14:03:18 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5OE3HaA006237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 24 Jun 2012 14:03:18 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt105.oracle.com (abhmt105.oracle.com [141.146.116.57]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q5OE3HYo008312; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 09:03:17 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:03:17 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac1R1DgdCjkMvOSNTLCWJnS460sCewAN4BXA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 148.87.113.117 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:85420 Archived-At: > In those days it was completely natural to expect that somebody who > used a computer read a manual. Today thats a strange requirement > to say the least. And in those days more computer users programmed computers. "Using a computer" does not mean quite the same thing now, in general. > Would a modern kid using a new phone/car expect to read a manual? The > fact is they dont (whereas oldies like me struggle to find them :-) ) :-D Indeed we do. > And so you give them emacs along with a manual and they look at you > funny. Or as Henry Corentin put it here, "I don't want to spend time reading and understanding how emacs works, through pages of documentation (even if it is well written)!" Giving the tendency you describe as a reason, there is some argument in the technical documentation world to de-emphasize in-depth doc and instead emphasize support for so-called "information snacking". Tweet-doc, so to speak. The argument is not just that users now want instant, short help (which would be an addition, a plus), but that they do not, will not, or cannot read. Or even that they do not need to or want to understand how something works. Task-oriented doc can be aligned to this. Instead of conceptual explanation of how something works, provide (only) a list of common user tasks. Did I hear "Gag!?" On n'arrete pas le progres... A propos, there was a program on (US) PBS recently about multi-tasking, and one of the studies indicated that students nowadays (again, in the US) were still writing more or less coherent paragraphs, but often those paragraphs were unrelated - there was no overall coherent argument or thread in the student compositions. It was as if a single paragraph was the only degree of composition they would or could muster.