From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Robinow Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Key bindings proposal Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:40:30 -0400 Message-ID: References: <19534.1494.627000.357123@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <176EDAD3B9E54E39870FA3F84A5DDF3C@us.oracle.com> <19542.56658.583000.394397@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19544.1015.468000.280770@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19546.30901.687000.971249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19546.47167.15000.439215@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87fwys7qao.fsf@telefonica.net> <87hbj8qvd9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87iq3k68ye.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <874of466rj.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87pqxsbrie.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <19556.28233.750000.798692@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19557.2279.703000.707743@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4E5480A100044AD58D82F16054CA3CF9@us.oracle.com> <9B6519017AC2466090BA05B2ED7DB0D3@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281721246 2504 80.91.229.12 (13 Aug 2010 17:40:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:40:46 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 13 19:40:44 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjyFD-0004RD-Gc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 19:40:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50592 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OjyFC-0004oW-UV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:40:38 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=57625 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OjyF7-0004oR-32 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:40:34 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjyF5-0006NW-Si for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:40:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-vw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.212.41]:35013) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjyF5-0006NL-Qe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:40:31 -0400 Original-Received: by vws16 with SMTP id 16so1578351vws.0 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:40:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jYIRptkiWyg5mvVrZJXYrAY5aU89WZJZzJWOiZato34=; b=GnZ2rpzYmUxFs1UF6ovU1R6Fk65BDYMozw46igYhSI/p4ZqpRNXASVIrlMn2QEOXAx jvwvMLSJam1+XR5eA4Oj35geyODP0UAqIrQjzziuC64DFJFoC++ARpCuRmZYwfaoDEIL LIgbyj0xcSmrIoEwLyoh6/0v8TSz0txYeYVDg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=LeFtcvf4xR1qw7zDZFkXmrq5jwKacqvdxm+tJzAGT0H9f5G/MRYj7312fUisPGuRQj V/yAFhi4uSNJMX1Qb3xdBv0p8Cjk9ICwb3TREGrKfoGRo//i00LWh9FCWdYRqcTp9Wog Uq+1FUZ1yzfR8PB0NHMetQYCAi6/4LEbUQ7Is= Original-Received: by 10.220.61.202 with SMTP id u10mr1005217vch.155.1281721230604; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.220.183.13 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:40:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128627 Archived-At: On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Lennart Borgman wrote: > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Drew Adams wrote= : >>> > I would even guess that most Windows users never use the >>> > ALT key in a Windows-specific way (except for CONTROL-ALT-DELETE) >>> > and never use the Window key at all. =A0For one thing, most are not >>> > programmers (another guess), and most interact with Windows using >>> > the mouse most of the time, not the keyboard. =A0And >>> > my guess is that _very_ few (proportionally) users of >>> > Windows use menu accelerators. >>> >>> Here is a lesson from MS on using MS Word: >>> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/ >>> work-with-the-keyboard-RZ006078589.aspx?section=3D9 >>> >>> It mentions explicitly Alt+Letter. >> >> So what? =A0No one said that menu accelerators do not _exist_. >> And no one said that Microsoft has no doc describing them. > > This is the way MS Word users are educated. The existence of documentation does not imply that people read it. I use Word frequently and I've never seen that doc. I just looked at a copy of the Word 2003 textbook formerly used at our local junior college (ISBN 1-4188-3911-6) and in over 600 pages I see NO MENTION of Alt+Letter usage. I simply don't believe that is the way most MS Word users are educated. I've used Windows since 3.1 and I've never used that feature (except during discussions such as this one where I've tried things just to see if they work) Menu accelerators are only useful when one's mouse is broken. > > People who are mostly programmers or similar might never learn that > kind of things. I do not know. But where I was working on the > technical university people actually wrote a lot of text too. (And > they used tools like MS Words.) Yes, many people use MS Word. That's one of the reasons Bill Gates is a multi-billionaire. Most of them don't use Alt+Letter.