From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 16:57:30 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <874oh9jwqw.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83zkz0jzlb.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276354692 13568 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 14:58:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:58:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 16:58:11 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONS9y-0002bt-BE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 16:58:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44756 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONS9q-0001nU-2v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:58:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=39029 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONS9i-0001GD-8P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:57:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONS9f-0007wR-JK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:57:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gx0-f169.google.com ([209.85.161.169]:33929) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONS9f-0007wJ-D2; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:57:51 -0400 Original-Received: by gxk2 with SMTP id 2so339763gxk.0 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 07:57:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=PkEdPT1RvarC5DFNZ4++CQS9kRKEFaY459Y/jM+KcPc=; b=GbNf2klFtvt4f+Fq4cRyfGnL846JlLUDb3RRwbdpFJuRDQtbLxJsy/bGZ5uWwRK+XA KQ/wivr7VD1vlPtWVrPrsrI5MIPKgHv12yqUqAVp2+A/7fqY8SvZUXW8qAG4tGTuz1B0 qGfTDd1SSPSKZySjf1wBBSuO7moOUFMoa7qec= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=x2EIpEEPMpfldIew0L19qmBGUdvvkxWzzxbaJglugpw8l6lxwN68wZOjpeNoV5Ny1r mSwj52ZDcQlMFst0F35WLfNqDDri4iCYT6TP/ZJWtOYZE6dg9ByNd3Izj6uGfCN1cyZc j8rc99UkokZgEseDc/zgJfF7z2ozRVKiHh5FU= Original-Received: by 10.101.180.38 with SMTP id h38mr2872381anp.253.1276354670094; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 07:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.100.154.15 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 07:57:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83zkz0jzlb.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125815 Archived-At: On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > I know all these references, and have a few more. I am sure you do. > I agree that it > would be nice to have all the features they preach about. =C2=A0People ar= e > welcome to step forward and implement them; I believe you have done a great job implementing this, but I do not think it is finished until the visual movement is implemented too. > I'm not saying that logical-order motion is the only mode we should > have. =C2=A0I'm saying that it's the absolute minimum, without which Emac= s > would be unusable with bidirectional text. I think you are right. And I think that visual movement should be the defau= lt. > And that is why I > implemented them -- to have Emacs minimally usable for editing > bidirectional scripts. It is great. >> - http://wiki.sibawayhi.org/keyboard - READING IS NOT CURSORING! > > The author of this page is an enthusiastic users of the current Emacs, > so I guess practice is not necessarily so black-and-white as it > sounds. I do not know who it is, but I really agree with his arguing here. >> - http://www.qsm.co.il/Hebrew/logicUI22.htm - "The logical approach is >> sometimes preferred by implementors, mostly because its implementation >> is easier. > > "Easier" my foot! =C2=A0Believe me, it's not at all easy in Emacs, with a= ll > its advanced display features. I am sure they only referred to the (missing) implementation of visual movement ;-) And the core part of this implementation is of course already done when the text is displayed correctly on screen. (Which does not mean that the rest is necessarily easy to do.)