From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: The unwarranted scrolling assumption Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:50:15 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83iq5hiiin.fsf@gnu.org> <83fx0lihov.fsf@gnu.org> <838w6cixma.fsf@gnu.org> <83y6ech1oo.fsf@gnu.org> <83ocf8gx7e.fsf@gnu.org> <83fx0jgxk7.fsf@gnu.org> <83eig3gspa.fsf@gnu.org> <83bpb7gp2g.fsf@gnu.org> <837hlvglvh.fsf@gnu.org> <834ogzglaj.fsf@gnu.org> <8339wjgg8w.fsf@gnu.org> <83y6eagb7g.fsf@gnu.org> <4C1D24E3.5080402@harpegolden.net> <87lja9fxuv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87vd9cd39o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1277121047 4172 80.91.229.12 (21 Jun 2010 11:50:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:50:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juanma Barranquero , emacs-devel@gnu.org, David De La Harpe Golden To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 21 13:50:46 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OQfWX-0005Ns-Bo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:50:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55538 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OQfWW-00070M-Pv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 07:50:44 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=34023 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OQfWQ-000709-BQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 07:50:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OQfWO-0006vC-66 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 07:50:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gw0-f41.google.com ([74.125.83.41]:47663) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OQfWO-0006v7-3f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 07:50:36 -0400 Original-Received: by gwj19 with SMTP id 19so505037gwj.0 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 04:50:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=kTuYPi1iKCo0jzCrrKTktJDZV0B/hBBq7fP3bA5XecY=; b=xiYvER0stxfjnY5+7txNEOix8CltkqSobpDklA2GMYADpx9N1eW+8wQQdfnDpelojk kwm8Qr7/jtm4na4RPDrjGjC2nuBpBE0rpbzv8B8kLngxY2ZJrgfEVxCLX/uaDeug9Yf4 DoH7AANUUpXLTm6IyLfecoqSojLAfte2o3tsQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=oUvcIfQpwPgGkrq2AGuL+UZ1Q6GaBlcTTdLd5fDLutFDNtJTQmlOuAguyrkGUHt1EN rnuz8XfyPloS2Ia8InULdOesryPKmiqBEw8cSv57qO5HQxqsW6F7eoPC2m34mOXbO/Ib MnKoU+FXhDMTOdIqttRKqs/yPEyltfk1OdB4A= Original-Received: by 10.101.105.2 with SMTP id h2mr3524048anm.83.1277121035178; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 04:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.100.154.15 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 04:50:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87vd9cd39o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:126301 Archived-At: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > Perhaps not, but testing it and saying "it doesn't work" gives you > much stronger claim on his attention to your patch. Yes, I just did and sent that here. > =C2=A0> No, but I am clearly a bit upset because no one seem to be intere= sted > =C2=A0> in the logic. Juanma asked me to explain again more clearly to El= i. I > =C2=A0> did. Where is the answer to my more detailed explanation? > > I've been working with Eli for about two decades. =C2=A0He has never > trusted logic unaccompanied by data. =C2=A0I happen to like that attitude= , > but even if it doesn't work for you, he's unlikely to change. Thanks. Yes, Eli and I are then working very differently. For me if I want (or need) data depends very much on what I know about the person I am working together with. If we can communicate on the logic level I prefer that since it is much quicker. I of course also appreciate that Eli want things tested. It is very good. It is more about when we should test. (And in some situations logic have to come first, but not here.) Anyway I have tried to accommodate to what Eli wants and I hope we can start communicating again. > =C2=A0> I do not care about if my patch goes in. I just care about if the > =C2=A0> problem gets fixed. And from David's testing it seems like it is = not > =C2=A0> fixed. > > But David's testing used HELLO, and HELLO triggers bidi, and bidi has > its own problems IIUC; certainly Eli produced a patch for it. =C2=A0There= 's > some evidence that they are different problems. =C2=A0So you need to test > too. Yes. I tested and I seem to have misunderstood what Eli's patch was for. Those problems I have mentioned ("jumping scrolling" and the problems that includes visual-line-mode/word-wrap) are still there. However David seems to have tested this so I think it is ok. > =C2=A0> Why don't you take a look at it? I mean the logic. I think you sh= ould > =C2=A0> have no difficulties to see how the patch will look. > > Because I don't understand the relevant redisplay invariants, and > don't have time to study them. OK.