From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Eilert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A more modest proposal (Was: Emacs learning curve) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:59:16 -0300 Message-ID: References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> <87ocecdzou.fsf@telefonica.net> <2256C17F740A425884AD551DE7758056@us.oracle.com> <87fwzodqqm.fsf@telefonica.net> <5138CDF30B2D4B778F948015614DA7BC@us.oracle.com> <87iq4ijtdy.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87bpa7uu1e.fsf@kanis.fr> <877hkv2hco.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iq4e593w.fsf@kanis.fr> <87lj9ayp2f.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4C493433.4010709@censorshipresearch.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279897192 19552 80.91.229.12 (23 Jul 2010 14:59:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:59:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chong Yidong , Emacs development discussions To: Daniel Colascione Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 23 16:59:49 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcJiu-0004KK-NF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:59:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38146 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OcJin-0003WJ-Eh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:59:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=39818 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OcJif-0003TM-Qf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:59:27 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcJiX-0002BN-43 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:59:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yx0-f169.google.com ([209.85.213.169]:50101) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcJiX-0002BH-0y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:59:17 -0400 Original-Received: by yxs7 with SMTP id 7so3899119yxs.0 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:59:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=603bUxlqbr9G6kW3omKBZThwH3WCWOQCrkbvJmJcar4=; b=kKbJXU+W46M0wktxJtrzP+a7jibRRNyWiXNSp/RjpQGvkdDqQAmOFBuBn2zL0tkky7 4hyJcdRPC37N6GphhvkFPBmCXXyxxAZiumFWoyNJOyFgAxzG0uDWHQKUdtSQfVim0yw9 aZjWEpR8eVi75QAL6bxbDjLKjyByvzaA8bwTg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=wUEYPdearC7j1oy8K068+Yelgimtt6v+F3APhtwps8n5za2oyfR87VnAQz+nlkjO9J 7nq0K9/XrbS86VgUTmyz0MxTlZJsnBMRVtO+fnz2Ec1ZgXjR9YP5gRWnGmklwvGYPnCQ tLIVNBOQ8pWd1bR1B4agrj16OqQZIQxdSvOww= Original-Received: by 10.150.181.3 with SMTP id d3mr5659992ybf.28.1279897156139; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.231.149.73 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:59:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4C493433.4010709@censorshipresearch.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127701 Archived-At: On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Daniel Colascione wrote: > On 7/17/10 10:51 AM, Chong Yidong wrote: > >> No, having CUA mode on by default is off the table. > > Agreed, but there are a few less disruptive ideas that are still worth > considering: > > 1) cua-selection-mode, or its moral equivalent > > cua-selection-mode doesn't play games C-c and C-x or interfere with any > normal Emacs keybinding, but it does give users bindings for > control-insert, shift-insert, and shift-delete. > > These keystrokes perform "copy", "paste", and "cut", respectively, and > the same keystrokes do similar things in other CUA applications --- it's > be easy to tell users, "unlike most programs, Emacs does not use C-c, > C-x, and C-v for copy and paste: Emacs was old when these bindings were > new, and they're used for something very different in Emacs. But Emacs > *does* support using Control-Insert, Shift-Delete, and Shift-Insert for > copy, cut, and paste. So do most other programs; learn to use these keys > instead." > > 2) More descriptive minibuffer messages for key chords > > Right now, pressing C-c by itself simply displays "C-c -"; C-x is > similar. Novice users would benefit if this message read something like > "C-c - " instead so that they notice > faster that C-c and C-x are very different in Emacs. > > 3) Natural binding for C-z > > Bind C-z by default to this function: > > (defun undo-or-suspend-emacs () > =C2=A0"Undo if we're in a windowing system, or suspend emacs if we're in = a TTY" > =C2=A0(interactive) > =C2=A0(setq this-command (if window-system 'undo 'suspend-emacs)) > =C2=A0(call-interactively this-command)) > > > Adopting this binding will ensure Emacs has the most natural and common > behavior on C-z for a given environment. Besides, not much of value is > lost: why bother with C-z in a windowing system when the system probably > provides its own idiomatic way of minimizing a window? > Indeed; how often one suspends/minimizes Emacs? This does seem to be a waste of a major keystroke. --Stephen Sent from my Emacs