From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>
To: Alain Knaff <alain@knaff.lu>
Cc: 7269@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#7269: bug #7269: 24.0.50; opening a file via emacsclient -c <file> moves the mouse cursor to, the top left of the frames buffer.
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 01:51:47 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <AANLkTimzjknAJmLenoKTvX1=9au96sRuak3xktkRQz17@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4CDF2B61.90309@knaff.lu>
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 1:20 AM, Alain Knaff <alain@knaff.lu> wrote:
>
> Why does this have to feel like a cheesy rape trial? :-)
Not sure ;-)
> Hopefully there is a standardized API for "get user's attention
> unintrusively"...
There is the "always on top" feature for windows.
>> I do
>> not know if there is anything else that can glue things together.
>> Maybe the semantic has not been specified clearly.
>
> Why can't the answer to "when is it allowed to grab focus" simply be
> "never"?
Because it would be very inconventient.
Take for example the case when a user double-clicks on a file in the
file manager (on w32 it is Windows Explorer). Then the purpose is to
open it in the associated application, for example a word processor.
Is there any reason not to give the word processor the focus in this
case? (Please remember this is a very common use case.)
> Somehow, other apps don't feel the need to mess in a similar way with
> keyboard focus.
Of course Emacs should behave similar to other apps on the platform as
far as possible. At least in my opinion.
> Now, I understand that it is a windows compatibility thingy.
I am not sure that it is w32 only. I would be very surprised if it was.
>> I think it is about cooperation and some pieces might be missing, see above.
>
> Yeah, that's the point. Window manager assume well-behaved (cooperative)
> apps, but apparently some aren't. Hence the need of "focus stealing
> prevention" and similar settings, which unfortunately don't always work
> (either they are ineffective, or have undesirable side-effects...)
I think the apps can not solve this all by themselves. But looking
into the possible semantics of this is far beyond what we actually
talking about now.
>>>>> But apparently, there is more than one method to grab focus, and some
>>>>> aren't blocked by this
>>>>
>>>> Yes. In some situations the users choice must be overriden.
>>>
>>> Which would these be?
>>
>> Urgent messages.
>
> Wouldn't "flashing" the app's outline be more appropriate? Just imagine
> emacs wanted to display the urgent message "Disk filling up. Is it ok to
> delete file xyz.abc to make space (y/n)", but the user just started to
> type "yesterday" into another app?
In some situations it is not enough. (For example if continuing doing
something might crash the computer or destroy data.)
>> I don't think this is a w32 specific problem at all.
>
> Well, I think it is. According to you, on Windows, most apps grab focus
> when launched.
No. The window manager gives them focus.
> From my observation, on Linux almost none do. Shouldn't
> that tell you something? Why does emacs want to be the white elephant here?
I am sure it does not want to be that.
Did you try changing the option `server-raise-frame' in Emacs?
>> There are bigger issues than this. The whole platform GNU/Linux exists
>> because people want a free platform. Whether it should behave like w32
>> is something that should be evaluated mainly against this.
>
> IMHO, solidity, usability and reliability played as big a role in the
> popularity of Linux (amongst its primary audience) than its freeness (be
> it as in beer or as in speech). Why do we have to throw away our
> advantages to pander to the masses?
I doubt that there actually would be any GNU/Linux if it was only for
programmers. It is too expensive for that. A lot of people would not
invest their free time to develop it - and without that the price
would be too high. It is or could be a treasure.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-11-14 0:51 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 21+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-10-22 20:29 bug#7269: 24.0.50; opening a file via emacsclient -c <file> moves the mouse cursor to the top left of the frames buffer Arne Babenhauserheide
2010-11-10 19:29 ` Anders Kaseorg
2010-11-11 23:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-11-12 17:02 ` Andreas Schwab
2010-11-13 20:13 ` bug#7269: bug #7269: 24.0.50; opening a file via emacsclient -c <file> moves the mouse cursor to, " Alain Knaff
2010-11-13 20:58 ` Lennart Borgman
[not found] ` <4CDEFD4E.1090603@knaff.lu>
[not found] ` <AANLkTikmo5es3TRm2UiOppzKv1EqQPjCryc=h8hnkPJj@mail.gmail.com>
2010-11-13 21:25 ` Alain Knaff
2010-11-13 21:31 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-11-13 21:39 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-11-13 21:42 ` Alain Knaff
2010-11-13 21:48 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-11-13 21:40 ` Alain Knaff
2010-11-13 21:52 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-11-13 22:10 ` Alain Knaff
2010-11-13 22:38 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-11-13 23:20 ` Alain Knaff
2010-11-13 23:50 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-11-14 0:20 ` Alain Knaff
2010-11-14 0:51 ` Lennart Borgman [this message]
2010-11-14 8:10 ` Alain Knaff
2010-12-20 11:15 ` bug#7269: 24.0.50; opening a file via emacsclient -c <file> moves the mouse cursor to " Chong Yidong
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