From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Key bindings proposal Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:59:12 +0200 Message-ID: References: <19534.1494.627000.357123@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <176EDAD3B9E54E39870FA3F84A5DDF3C@us.oracle.com> <19542.56658.583000.394397@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19544.1015.468000.280770@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19546.30901.687000.971249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19546.47167.15000.439215@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87fwys7qao.fsf@telefonica.net> <87hbj8qvd9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87iq3k68ye.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <874of466rj.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87pqxsbrie.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87k4nv7t72.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281629846 1700 80.91.229.12 (12 Aug 2010 16:17:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:17:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Uday S Reddy , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Chong Yidong Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 12 18:17:24 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjaT6-0002Hn-1B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:17:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55899 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OjaT4-0007Wv-Nk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:17:22 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=49121 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OjaQO-0005Dq-LB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:14:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjaBp-0001zD-VN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:59:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.216.41]:59318) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjaBp-0001z6-TE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:59:33 -0400 Original-Received: by qwk4 with SMTP id 4so1858132qwk.0 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:59:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jDxFM6HJRS/kIKkou4kHvGFeZD8KLBu2WLgN+yBytcY=; b=QqB9rzzBnpuRGezFb0P7BFoZvm3gfdzTBkeznoohKFmbua58+huBAWJtNH1Kn7poT9 tJflOT4b50SmftmMsSAwL3PyAErqzpFpB0kpFfoFZaMdXiUo9dBVHtdbh0gpGj8zCyTy DntmaIDozkQoPJqzw9se0ta8WHozKTqSsDHFI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=CJEKMQCu+4HiU6J5ot23l+C9qSnwNWYvHdk/OAeBY1xYUHwlidXYdEAG6G1NkwNpWC U+Ckvksy8XhuZq/0Y/LPwFUXW3NdLVwCgykp5/PVVqHeAwHrLwSqFdWEDh5oUxrK9DzB s9X5sQNCsVk47mMbF8OA4SDsn947RIxActDqM= Original-Received: by 10.224.28.75 with SMTP id l11mr135214qac.64.1281628772464; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.229.54.80 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87k4nv7t72.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128579 Archived-At: On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Chong Yidong wrote= : > Lennart Borgman writes: > >>>> - Alt-TAB is very important, at least on w32. It switches application >>>> (or rather application level window). >>>> - Alt+Letter (or Alt and then Letter) is used to open menus. >>> >>> Again, how is this different from other platforms? >> >> I think you know the other platforms better. >> >> What is unclear to you in this respect? I have not seen anything that >> I would regard as seriously doubt here of what I wrote above. > > None of your points are Windows specific. =C2=A0On POSIX platforms, Alt-T= AB > is used commonly with to switch windows, and Alt-LETTER to open menus. > But your proposed solution is myopically focused on Windows, and I have > not seen a good explanation of why it should be so. I am glad they are not Windows specific (but wonder why you say I am myopically focused on Windows). As Andreas already have pointed out POSIX does not define those things. So what I am interested in is how the different window managers handles this - and you answered that. Your answer is a repeating what others have said here before: the Alt key is commonly used by the window managers. And I think it is unfortunate that Emacs by default takes it since a keyboard user might be very used to use it the way they are used above. >> But one important thing to notice is that on w32 there is one window >> manager (with just small variations relevant here). This means that >> most people on w32 expects the common standards to work, especially >> those above. (I.e. if they are keyboard users and I guess those >> interested in Emacs are that.) > > Hijacking the Windows key is not exactly following the "common > standards". This is in open door. I have never said that. What I have said is that it seems better to use the windows key since I believe it is fair to assume it is not used that frequently by most users. (And I am quite surprised that I have to tell this once again.)