From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stuart Hacking Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Efforts to attract more users? Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:54:58 +0100 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e65bccc804c8eb048ae0a3de X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278597534 10622 80.91.229.12 (8 Jul 2010 13:58:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 13:58:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Emacs Dev \[emacs-devel\]" To: joakim@verona.se Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 08 15:58:53 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWrcm-00058N-9H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:58:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41689 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OWrcg-0007Bn-Do for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:58:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=56977 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OWrbx-0006GB-Or for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:58:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWrZR-00043t-Tl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:55:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ww0-f49.google.com ([74.125.82.49]:39412) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWrZR-00043L-Pi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:55:21 -0400 Original-Received: by wwi14 with SMTP id 14so7361829wwi.30 for ; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 06:55:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=0cV7IHqw9ZmXoMduy0s4K2ZNh/E3pgsXn5t+0tDFAiE=; b=K3NFGkG0ZufYeKi+3L0h2n1nhxFCO64J4Ktet3V6PCLZadtbjl+XFlhDOg33WBcvU+ TdYg0NeXo9ZEn9GQp8Qj370zdERvHIEe1YLHo2s5hh89rFz8Dm5u7hBLICFmPTZLX8o+ ExJYl/FOerrahDlWj4TcTxs+HGiZaHWOYJoog= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; b=SMFRuAZhaS3qxNswcbKfE8EopLRJHBtMl0/UpP9LGz4mIMzv3qHGPmfm8hQbKb720s y4FrjJkHKpaJ1Vd6LnZ4JABEm2lkcVe/6Dp0UiiDnv/Mp7NBH7jVI+e1z8y9dOmn3rid O7j+RYTTheEbPSTe1cmtcBSUhmaCC07zOeCxY= Original-Received: by 10.227.129.139 with SMTP id o11mr6702932wbs.144.1278597319148; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 06:55:19 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.216.174.1 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 06:54:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:126909 Archived-At: --0016e65bccc804c8eb048ae0a3de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 8 July 2010 08:44, wrote: > > I dont know of any organized effort. > > I do try to attract people to Emacs and free software myself. > I think Emacs becomes very alluring when someone gets stuck on a laborious piece of text processing or searching. I've introduced a couple of people in work to it simply by virtue of regexp incremental search and keyboard macros. Now they're converts. I mostly work with developers that use a windoze desktop, Eclipse, and > some secondary simpler editor. In recent years getting people interested > in Emacs has been difficult, I can only recall about one or two people I > helped getting started with Emacs the last 3 years. > It's hard to come up with persuasive arguments for emacs in the face of shiny new development environments. I suppose things like drag and drop refactoring and graphical editors (property lists, forms, tree based xml) are popular. Is this a by product of Eclipse being quite difficult and cumbersome when you try to search for something? At home I use Emacs and JDE with Tags. In work I use Eclipse because it's the done thing. I often find myself copying large chunks of text into emacs to work with, then copying them back. As I mentioned, Emacs earns its stripes when people discover the joys of automating away the drudgery and then explore the other things they can do. Whenever I mention emacs to anyone though, I'm met with either a blank stare or "Hah, Emacs. Nice operating system, shame about the editor.", "Emacs? Eight megs and constantly swapping!" Just try it, friend. It's eight megs well spent. --Stuart --0016e65bccc804c8eb048ae0a3de Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 8 July 2010 08:44, <joakim@verona.se> wrote: I dont know of any organized effort.

I do try to attract people to Emacs and free software myself.

=C2=A0I think Emacs becomes very alluring when someo= ne gets stuck on a laborious piece of text processing or searching. I'v= e introduced a couple of people in work to it simply by virtue of regexp in= cremental search and keyboard macros. Now they're converts.

I mostly work with developers that use a windoze desktop, Eclipse, and
some secondary simpler editor. In recent years getting people interested in Emacs has been difficult, I can only recall about one or two people I helped getting started with Emacs the last 3 years.
It's hard to come up with persuasive arguments for emacs i= n the face of shiny new development environments. I suppose things like dra= g and drop refactoring and graphical editors (property lists, forms, tree b= ased xml) are popular. Is this a by product of Eclipse being quite difficul= t and cumbersome when you try to search for something?

At home I use Emacs and JDE with Tags. In work I use Ec= lipse because it's the done thing. I often find myself copying large ch= unks of text into emacs to work with, then copying them back.

As I mentioned, Emacs earns its stripes when people discover= the joys of automating away the drudgery and then explore the other things= they can do. Whenever I mention emacs to anyone though, I'm met with e= ither a blank stare or "Hah, Emacs. Nice operating system, shame about= the editor.", "Emacs? Eight megs and constantly swapping!"<= /div>

Just try it, friend. It's eight megs well spent.

--Stuart

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