From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Wojciech Meyer Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:27:03 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> <87ocecdzou.fsf@telefonica.net> <2256C17F740A425884AD551DE7758056@us.oracle.com> <87fwzodqqm.fsf@telefonica.net> <5138CDF30B2D4B778F948015614DA7BC@us.oracle.com> <87iq4ijtdy.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87bpa7uu1e.fsf@kanis.fr> <87hbjr9x71.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87d3uf9vb2.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279826835 9979 80.91.229.12 (22 Jul 2010 19:27:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:27:15 +0000 (UTC) To: David Kastrup , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 22 21:27:14 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc1QH-00087x-N7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:27:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59707 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oc1QH-0001Fd-5z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:27:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=40856 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oc1QB-0001Ed-81 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:27:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc1Q9-00015A-Hm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:27:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wy0-f169.google.com ([74.125.82.169]:48555) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc1Q9-00014q-Di; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:27:05 -0400 Original-Received: by wyg36 with SMTP id 36so1059191wyg.0 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:27:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=i5XHpmJ7UMeo6uz7k6dA6h1di00uW2JsbEdn/tXZIwk=; b=UtphZ/PYPv/ZuGCfX3Wu4MW1LIr9u+DIC+Zs1IUfUMHp+bQ2563eatQ7X9hK0i61oS O31ELv9WXW0TjAa1PBl5M4rwcYOyHR7W2lUQV5SENxn2B4H9lRk4tb71J/Ew+j6KLWXo 49WtJXh7qXpzViPjeT5UPwXuoKUvqjxvXT8wc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=MPwQL2NSwAFt5EH/lYwr+wugl2+THPyqVSCkPXmBigtEblp7XL6eA/09j7sWG02Miw gWouM5qTCZfkATpoiSvdMienfs1HIbNHFXL9Vvrk6x+b077QW8VZw/pmgFSOqMikWT0w wyYJCWwlQVuIX8K3vzTU3UWrMA4h+EZJvPMEQ= Original-Received: by 10.227.138.69 with SMTP id z5mr2425346wbt.15.1279826823508; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.216.70.193 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:27:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87d3uf9vb2.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127657 Archived-At: So what the vim users say? Out of curisoity. Sent from mobile... On 7/22/10, David Kastrup wrote: > David Kastrup writes: > >> "Alfred M. Szmidt" writes: >> >>> > Advanced users should have no problem adding a single line to their >>> > .emacs to switch on the compatibility mode >>> > e.g. (enable-classic-bindings) and new users would enjoy the >>> familiar >>> > CUA-style bindings out of the box. >>> >>> I side with Tom, I wouldn't mind adding one line to my .emacs in favor >>> of easing new users experience. >>> >>> There is absolutley no proof that CUA would 'ease' a new users >>> experience; there is proof that it would make make the experience >>> harder for all who are accustomed to emacs though. >> >> I don't see that adding mode-, selection- and keypress-timing dependent >> behavior in order to arrive at something that magically works half the >> time like Notepad, half the time like Emacs, does much to make an >> editing application more accessible to a new user. > > To illustrate: do we really want to consider the following a suitable > user experience for new users? Once they type more than 5 keys per > second, CUA behavior will get replaced by native Emacs behavior? That > sort of cleverness is not predictable to a new user. > > cua-prefix-override-inhibit-delay is a variable defined in `cua-base.el'. > Its value is 0.2 > > Documentation: > *If non-nil, time in seconds to delay before overriding prefix key. > If there is additional input within this time, the prefix key is > used as a normal prefix key. So typing a key sequence quickly will > inhibit overriding the prefix key. > As a special case, if the prefix keys repeated within this time, the > first prefix key is discarded, so typing a prefix key twice in quick > succession will also inhibit overriding the prefix key. > If the value is nil, use a shifted prefix key to inhibit the override. > > You can customize this variable. > > [back] > > Try marking an active region in CUA mode, then jump to the other side of > the region using a properly timed C-x C-x C-x. > > This is supposed to be an editor, not an arcade game. And no, I don't > think that this sort of user interface problem can be solved by > discussing the dexterity to be expected from a new user. > > -- > David Kastrup > > > -- Sent from my mobile device