From: Deniz Dogan <deniz.a.m.dogan@gmail.com>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Cc: "Stuart Hacking" <stuhacking@gmail.com>,
"Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>,
"Lennart Borgman" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>,
emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Bikeshedding go! Why is <M-f4> unbound?
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 16:54:30 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <AANLkTim+P4N9CJUsWmR3eEc72qLmQq-gObrNm_n1=msn@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <57BF13882D6E494286547F293FE9D03B@us.oracle.com>
2011/1/12 Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>:
>> > There is no reason for Emacs to bind Alt-F4 (or M-f4) by default.
>> > It should be kept for anyone to bind to anything. (Just
>> > one more opinion.)
>>
>> On the other hand, it wouldn't be a big deal for Emacs to have a
>> default binding. Anyone who cares enough will be able to rebind it.
>>
>> There's always discussion about making Emacs a more well behaved
>> application on Windows and this seems like a low-hanging fruit?
>
> I respectfully disagree.
>
> 1. There's _no special reason_ to give _this_ key a default binding.
>
> 2. While it is true that a default binding can be overridden, that's not a good
> enough argument for making a _particular_ default binding.
>
> 3. Default bindings tend to become sacrosanct in the eyes of many over time. A
> library (or even a user) that binds one can be thought by some to be going
> against the grain (convention).
>
> 4. It's not because some key is unbound that we should give it a default
> binding. If the argument that a default binding can always be overridden were
> sufficient for creating default bindings, then we would bind _every_ key by
> default. Even a random default binding would be bound to please someone, and
> "Anyone who cares enough will be able to rebind it."
>
> 5. Slippery slope. Windows uses key XYZ for blah, so we bind it. Then someone
> says "Hey, we respect the Windows binding by default for XYZ, why not also for
> UVW and RST and ...?
>
> "It wouldn't be a big deal for Emacs to have a default binding" - epitaph on a
> tombstone in Boot Hill, Tombstone, Arizona.
>
I'm neither for nor against this proposal anymore, but I'd like it if
we keep the discussion going, so here are my thoughts.
1. But there is a point to it! I may be wrong, but isn't M-f4 what
most desktop environments, e.g. KDE and Gnome, use to close a window
by default? To a new Emacs user, which we have to consider, M-f4 *not*
closing the window on a Windows system could potentially be confusing
and maybe even irritating. The new user maybe doesn't know that she
can make new key bindings herself and even if she knows she *can* make
new bindings, maybe she doesn't know what command to bind it to.
save-buffers-kill-terminal probably isn't what first comes to mind.
4. No one is saying we should bind M-f4 because it is unused. It's
just that it could have a very useful default binding for Windows
users which just happens to be unused today.
--
Deniz Dogan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-01-12 15:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-01-05 14:48 Bikeshedding go! Why is <M-f4> unbound? Deniz Dogan
2011-01-05 15:29 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-05 17:11 ` Deniz Dogan
2011-01-05 17:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-01-05 17:36 ` Deniz Dogan
2011-01-05 18:15 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-09 22:00 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-10 1:01 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-10 1:46 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-10 3:01 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-10 3:08 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-12 13:53 ` Stuart Hacking
2011-01-12 15:01 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-12 15:54 ` Deniz Dogan [this message]
2011-01-12 17:17 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-12 20:29 ` Chad Brown
2011-01-12 20:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-01-12 20:42 ` Deniz Dogan
2011-01-13 2:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-01-13 3:13 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-13 3:59 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-13 4:15 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-13 13:13 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-13 16:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-01-13 18:05 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-13 21:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-01-13 22:00 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-14 0:12 ` Jason Rumney
2011-01-14 0:21 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-14 5:02 ` Jason Rumney
2011-01-14 8:28 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-13 22:18 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-13 22:30 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-13 22:47 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-13 23:04 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-13 23:14 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-14 9:25 ` Giorgos Keramidas
2011-01-14 9:43 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-13 22:53 ` Stuart Hacking
2011-01-13 23:10 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-14 0:13 ` Jason Rumney
2011-01-14 1:35 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-14 5:08 ` Jason Rumney
2011-01-14 10:49 ` PJ Weisberg
2011-01-14 15:21 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-14 15:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-01-15 0:07 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-15 11:41 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-16 21:49 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <227F94B0AC1649C1A41082A24!9921783@us.oracle!! .com>
[not found] ` <227F94B0AC1649C1A41082A24!9921783@us.oracle!! ! .com>
[not found] ` <227F94B0AC1649C1A41082A24! 9921783@us.oracle! .com>
2011-01-16 23:53 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 1:40 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 1:52 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 8:32 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 18:22 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 18:36 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 19:02 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 19:27 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18 3:20 ` Bikeshedding "user choice" Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-01-18 5:29 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-18 6:11 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-01-18 17:45 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-19 4:59 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-01-19 19:34 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-18 8:06 ` Bikeshedding go! Why is <M-f4> unbound? jasonr
2011-01-17 19:27 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-17 20:24 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 2:27 ` Jason Rumney
2011-01-17 18:21 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-16 21:49 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-14 17:58 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-14 20:27 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-14 22:24 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <D727BC7268A24AF7B9544FD4E0B74E11@us! .oracle.com>
2011-01-14 22:43 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-16 21:49 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-16 23:49 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 0:33 ` Philipp Haselwarter
2011-01-17 1:41 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 1:45 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 8:29 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 8:47 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-01-17 9:23 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 18:22 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 18:22 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-15 2:38 ` PJ Weisberg
2011-01-16 21:49 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-10 10:15 ` Dimitri Fontaine
2011-01-05 15:31 ` Christopher Allan Webber
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2011-01-14 1:20 grischka
2011-01-17 12:06 grischka
2011-01-17 12:23 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 14:37 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-17 16:56 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18 3:03 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-01-18 9:11 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18 12:10 ` grischka
2011-01-17 20:31 Drew Adams
2011-01-17 20:53 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 21:56 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 22:23 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 23:17 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 23:58 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18 0:36 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-18 0:47 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18 1:20 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-18 1:38 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18 3:14 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-18 4:06 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-01-18 9:36 grischka
2011-01-18 12:58 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-18 13:15 ` grischka
2011-01-18 13:27 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-18 17:20 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-19 10:08 ` Stuart Hacking
2011-01-19 19:37 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-20 1:00 ` PJ Weisberg
2011-01-20 17:12 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-20 20:10 ` PJ Weisberg
2011-01-18 13:33 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18 13:51 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-18 17:40 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18 17:52 ` Óscar Fuentes
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