From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Efforts to attract more users? Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 04:40:44 +0200 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278816084 8041 80.91.229.12 (11 Jul 2010 02:41:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:41:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "fplemma@gmail.com" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" , "rms@gnu.org" , "joakim@verona.se" , christian.lynbech@tieto.com To: Juanma Barranquero Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 11 04:41:22 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXmTi-0002rT-AC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 04:41:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56660 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OXmTh-00043A-9S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 22:41:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=33408 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OXmTb-000431-7W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 22:41:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXmTZ-0006bc-VM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 22:41:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ey0-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169]:58407) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXmTZ-0006bU-Q3; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 22:41:05 -0400 Original-Received: by eydd26 with SMTP id d26so462709eyd.0 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:41:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=VPz1+Nqd7p9VU4jkOqhH8mjzgZJ2gG3dFiKLtW2NKrk=; b=T3U3VfJSkrVgPekNZa3m4KlJSoK37C+DllCnJL+xN5azeDprkq72LphTQyNo2onTiZ zK2FFBIZ/nEB1orMsY3StZ5xEsG9sB/9o70l9RLTn/4JH8FfKMLSvF6GvDnu3PBy9CYd zrUct6elakE+UUFCh89vQINaohUlgheDeJIGk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; b=qgSUUseC6DPAxQJ4VK1P8/k7yLdeDvYTmQxUm3mUPKYYYdd/uy2DEuWbNTx3Boeq9N znlC3Sp74XSqeRtarjoWsk1OoVQz6FUu2MaPbc381c9HlQyaqAH9NJZ8LmdiNrPMjwH6 x19vUoXYI4TQHcWYrMJMhcWjoz7q6cHuYn70Q= Original-Received: by 10.213.97.198 with SMTP id m6mr8423072ebn.25.1278816064233; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.213.15.132 with HTTP; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:40:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127023 Archived-At: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 1:43 AM, Juanma Barranquero wrote: > On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 02:28, Lennart Borgman > wrote: > >> I told you at that time how to do the merge. You seemed to believe it >> could be done another way. > > Yes, you told me "here's my code, please adapt it to the trunk, as I > don't have time to do it myself" (not exact quote, but that's the > feeling). OK, that is your impression, but not my intention. As I told you then I was/am unused to cvs and did not want to break anything in the repository or make things more difficult. We both wanted to make the merge. I suggested to make it stepwise by changing the function arguments the way I needed them for the new structure. It would have made the burden of merging easier, but I was not able to convince you of that. To still make it a bit easier I restructured the code so that a similar implementation could be used on all platform. I got no feedback on that either. Somewhere there I gave up. I realized I did not have time and I thought it be better to spend the time I had on nXhtml. And since such small changes I had proposed for emacsclient and for the menu system, key board etc where so difficult to get accepted I decided to try to work around the difficulties in Emacs for using multi major modes rather than proposing here changes that would have made it easier. I just did not had time to take the discussion since these parts are much more difficult. So all this had big consequences for me. >> Maybe you are right, but to me the way you >> wanted to do it looked like much more work. I ran out of time. > > No, what I wanted was not more work. It was the same amount of work, > but mostly done by you, instead of me. Maybe the big problem was that I did not commit this myself. It looks to me the amount of work trying to make it this way is several times bigger than trying to cooperate like this. By that I do not mean anyone of us where doing something especially wrong or that we did not try hard enought. Just that this type of cooperation means much more work. So I suggest we just give up on this here. I may or may not find time to switch to savannah from launchpad to do the merge myself. I am not sure, it depends a lot of what will happen in other areas of my life. Or someone else may find the time to look into how I structured this and do the merge. Or someone might redo it from scratch. All I hope is that this can be done. I do not really care how. I just realize our efforts so far have been unsuccessful. >> Take for example the recent discussion about the display engine. There >> was too many misunderstandings so in the end I thought it was best to >> just drop it. > > I remember the discussion. I got the feeling the misunderstandings > were mainly on your part. Really? Did you read my explanation then? (It is not important to me, but still I get irritated if the bug I was looking at gets ignored because of misunderstandings.)