From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 05:52:04 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83fx0slhxn.fsf@gnu.org> <83pqzwjkn9.fsf@gnu.org> <83mxv0je2b.fsf@gnu.org> <83fx0sjaab.fsf@gnu.org> <83bpbgj718.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276401154 758 80.91.229.12 (13 Jun 2010 03:52:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 03:52:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 13 05:52:33 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONeFM-0000bA-GU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2010 05:52:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40597 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONeFL-0006Oj-Qq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:52:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=35320 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONeFG-0006OU-5g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:52:27 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONeFF-0003Wx-2O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:52:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.160.169]:47358) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONeFE-0003Wq-Tp; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:52:25 -0400 Original-Received: by gyg4 with SMTP id 4so2093249gyg.0 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:52:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=94l8jpYg206xVGWFEO3q1BPle20B2Nchn9dRrJM2vzY=; b=LcKQlMBHXvu0Euciw+AzzVUJDO9oK+0lIOZlBns36at92PYuckCstl2wCaQZBaMpG+ nkVlMc7KIvohB/BQPvund39gfdz0B1OiXJe5dE7R6Ts+DCqie0KuGeBSGsijjJ63q+zk yc/O3ei8Ug2joQs2r+7IVzfPNR/RgGd+XCn6Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=oeXzqKrWdDR0xG/ObEz7g9ddO1vWisnhkry1eiTHjDByGpmdNmj5DHY5GB9tpmFW3L aXXsztQklELweqqZQvzrCFM1LAWkiHIq1jTqYv+mpGufByOnC0G//CawKKa8LT0ohz5T Q2GNms/oQ78oP1d3LVC6280ZiDBTZIgfHNQyU= Original-Received: by 10.101.132.14 with SMTP id j14mr3278603ann.143.1276401144073; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.100.154.15 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:52:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125870 Archived-At: On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lennart Borgman wrote: > On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> From: Lennart Borgman >>> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 22:07:36 +0200 >>> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >>> >>> > =C2=A0abcde EDCBA xyz >>> > =C2=A0--------- >>> > >>> > Now, what characters do you think should be displayed with the region >>> > face? >>> >>> >>> As I said in another message it would be "abcde CBA", i.e. exactly the >>> visual region that you now get when moving with the arrow keys so that >>> you get to C. >> >> But that doesn't make sense: the cursor traverses characters that you >> don't paint in the region face, and the region face is put on >> characters the cursor didn't move through. > > So you are going to sit there painting them one by one just to be sure? I must admit that your point here makes more sense than I first thought. I looked a bit at how things are setup in OpenOffice. The default seems to be that arrow keys follows logical direction (and I could not find how to change it, but it should be possible ... ;-). They seem to have discussed this three years ago so I started wondering why they left it this way. Clearly, it is not hard to see the advantage of letting arrow keys move visually so what big win did they see having them move logically. I wonder if your point here, is the main advantage. The reason I suspect this is that moving with the arrow keys shifted is the only way to select text there. And during this operation you might more often actually read the text. So here actually (to my surprise) "reading is (quite often) cursoring". Still, for other operations, I think that the reverse visual direction for the arrow keys is bad.