From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:20:42 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83fx0slhxn.fsf@gnu.org> <83pqzwjkn9.fsf@gnu.org> <83mxv0je2b.fsf@gnu.org> <83eigcja4r.fsf@gnu.org> <83aar0j6w8.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276378092 15921 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 21:28:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:28:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 23:28:11 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONYFJ-0002Qg-7r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:28:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59593 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONYFH-0006iN-Qo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:28:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=50005 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONY8f-0004mh-Bc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:21:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONY8V-0000u0-Q1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:21:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yw0-f187.google.com ([209.85.211.187]:41298) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONY8V-0000tt-Mg; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:21:03 -0400 Original-Received: by ywh17 with SMTP id 17so993607ywh.1 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:21:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=AMaBP95B3hTEgbUBiNKVKvVDSm0BsGrBN1LtdvrApwU=; b=WPiQqUHDV5H61QP2WvZ5gPqVU4FGvCvEg2VwgBIukDzvqrCihhH+Fj8wQGBwq2NtND rIRnaAfbpS+b+/JK96XTaGdXvVwPPM9wLscVXr0tlr8gSmrPBtGlEBR3pUaR9LWa6+pH Z2PyhMQpWfO4uYo+q8twnM+ZEtCM2Qw2xy8KI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=CtKipHxzIDtDrTxQjWm7bpsQ/aXiYwEj+DXONY/peHb+Tp2pMJy8XGf1K2FKpudUg2 7cTdFgkU63KoCO+zLo8OzE6bVg/EUZsd1mXQuuPZxEHTyD2G2/0dWzkkWHf9JbRi5nTg Og26dDrJy4suxsWCnfqibqILZJhUFhlvK4/7k= Original-Received: by 10.101.132.15 with SMTP id j15mr3079173ann.124.1276377662106; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.100.154.15 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:20:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83aar0j6w8.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125862 Archived-At: On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 11:08 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> =C2=A0And of course: without letting the arrow keys move visually on the >> screen there is no easy way at all to move visually on the screen. > > I see nothing non-easy with logical-order motion. > >> This is actually a bit fun. Try creating with only blanks, just >> spaces, tabs and newlines. Set some of the those chars to arabic and >> let some be latin. Now try moving around the page using only the >> visual keys. Try to go to the end of the page. (I suggest this as an >> alternative to sudoku...) > > You can mock it as much as you want, but users of R2L scripts do this > every day, and have no problem at all. Of course, if you deny that there are no difficulties with having no way to get visual movements then you can't see the problem. > Anyway, we are beginning to repeat ourselves. =C2=A0It's clear we disagre= e, > so let's leave it at that. I think a sum up is necessary. Do you want to make a sum up of the argument= s?