From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Andrew W. Nosenko" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs, QT and Cairo Was: Re: Efforts to attract more users? Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 02:15:39 +0300 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279235759 15491 80.91.229.12 (15 Jul 2010 23:15:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 23:15:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: fplemma@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, joakim@verona.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Bernardo Barros , acm@muc.de, "Stephen J. Turnbull" , John Yates , eliz@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org To: Stephen Eilert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 16 01:15:54 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZXei-0008DT-TA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 01:15:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54662 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZXei-0004EJ-AQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:15:52 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=44358 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZXec-0004EC-80 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:15:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZXea-0006DG-Ss for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:15:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wy0-f169.google.com ([74.125.82.169]:34245) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZXeX-0006Ck-K8; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:15:41 -0400 Original-Received: by wyj26 with SMTP id 26so1407035wyj.0 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:15:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Dmsiu0h47WHW3WyO18yZ9EKohRpNAXo5nr8AEXqvkzI=; b=juLmy+DPL4N8PIHFh0oxxmP/uaaEL1q7IbPOkoeT6htJvVQCY732ULYMgW03Mmdu/e kWbq0Lu8Jy7PKvqS5XXiOUaPM/QErUpKqWKSelL5noglvhaO96HH4AqR2hgYm/IU3JuL rbdYLBg9PrP5FyW3BLfHwzrZBEfL2GnEFdtkU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=PEQz0QIkg/P2xdFNJXfFI/lyOcXCLTUXLNUc8u8TztyrtZ2XqM1UkWpVhdcthc+eyh GrY8wRNWJj4xYM/FVb+od6dElifW7iWPxBOMMM4chddYYF4pUXRf1UhZziDv0e3HnNNl u3yf9oLwcdeEHfHbKz9NenlcD8UOzgdumFnx8= Original-Received: by 10.227.134.210 with SMTP id k18mr151436wbt.160.1279235739687; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.216.67.66 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:15:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127399 Archived-At: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 22:02, Stephen Eilert wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Bernardo Barros > wrote: >> many people in the gnu world are using qt4. are there reasons not to >> consider it? >From my experience, binding C++ library into C program is not the best way to spend your free time. But it is my personal expirience and opinion. Your mileage may vary. >> > > Does it matter? > > You see, it is not like Emacs has stretched GTK's capabilities to the > limit. Actually there isn't much being used: menu, the window itself, > scrollbars and a very primitive toolbar (that I always turn off), as > far as I can tell. > > What about exposing Cairo bindings (GTK already uses it, so it is not > exactly a new dependency, only the headers) to elisp so that we can > actually draw a prettier user interface? Things like real lines > instead of "-" for the modeline (and a better looking modeline > itself), better looking widgets (the horrendous fake buttons created > by customize, for example), better fringe layer or even, say, an UML > mode with good-looking classes. And perhaps a cute speedbar. May be better to start not from Cairo, but from starting using GTK+ itself? IMHO you don't need Cairo for draw the GTK button widget (may be GTK itself need cairo for this, but it's GTK's problem, not your, and buttons were there far before cairo was started at all :-). May be you need Cairo for _simulate_ the current button widget look, but IMO better to just use the real button instead of simulating it. Yet another example: scrollbars. I remember discussions where better to place them by default. But I don't remember anyone who pointed that position of scrollbars controlled by and desktop environment and gtkrc (GTK+ semi-analog of xrdb). Where scrollbar should be? -- there where the rest of of desktop places it and controlled from the place where the rest of desktop controlled. Of course it may and should be able to be customized on per-application basis and Emacs here far ahead of the rest. But... But why speaking about scrollbar on the right vs. scrollbar on the left [by default] no one mentioned third possibility: the desktop default setting? Thus, my personal humble opinion: may be instead of introducing the new tool it would be better just to exploit better/deeper the current (and, by the way, the very powerful) tool? > > Yes, looks do matter. Most Emacs screenshots look kinda dated and > primitive - and this carries over to the overall perception. I've > added hundreds of lines to my .emacs for looks alone, but I can't draw > something better programatically. > > > --Stephen > > Sent from my Emacs > > -- Andrew W. Nosenko