From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Key bindings proposal Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 13:00:15 +0200 Message-ID: References: <19534.1494.627000.357123@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19537.40472.267000.563053@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <176EDAD3B9E54E39870FA3F84A5DDF3C@us.oracle.com> <19542.56658.583000.394397@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19544.1015.468000.280770@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19546.30901.687000.971249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281021375 12298 80.91.229.12 (5 Aug 2010 15:16:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:16:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Uday S Reddy , Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Juanma Barranquero Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 05 17:16:13 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oh2Az-0002yP-JU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 17:16:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43498 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oh2Ay-0001IU-Bi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 11:16:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=51179 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oh1zs-00024h-Uo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 11:04:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oh1zd-0002zr-KW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 11:04:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qy0-f176.google.com ([209.85.216.176]:62113) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oh1zd-0002zk-II for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 11:04:25 -0400 Original-Received: by qyk34 with SMTP id 34so5332979qyk.0 for ; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 08:04:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=9h+HfIlLbbsrr6yUlDFIEFfOKj2psb5fIZ9J1wgenxI=; b=FzBNmwAX8labKtf7XYtDSTYuUFooO/g0Eg+xF9DhxlTO2biKQbQXUYbaC281xaBllF II+krJQ0iwE4E3mWGCibFbu7PfDAvqWAyfiDKWFJIU2Bl+2+bGu/k7VuDKf9IwM8P6E/ lQ6ORcANEyB8Ou7dxGfVEpPwP2DTzfFzjvBtE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; b=i9kVKeEEgQusD/qluwROX9jA5Kbqhk0QH4xN/iiu7hJiDnXGxgrqNltCtwtAYL0TbX QO2vchOYgo4I7pbhXt6yCPco9BjYb2OMUPtRW7R+5Qhdl25GGnBsyQSXcMovqFxwFLSN zwm907dn+95DQ57IV1dWE8XbGqWSgmBZBU0xA= Original-Received: by 10.229.2.3 with SMTP id 3mr3210137qch.266.1281006036168; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 04:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.229.9.84 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Aug 2010 04:00:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128279 Archived-At: On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Juanma Barranquero wrote: > On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:39, Uday S Reddy wrote: > >> In that case, I would like to understand at least the key binding >> aspects of this divergence. > > I don't think they are the main reason behind the fork, but I could be wrong. Yes, it is. There were three main things I wanted to work: - Using the windows keys (or other key, for example shift-lock) as Emacs META so that Alt key could be freed. - Getting sticky keys (accessibility) to work. - Getting menus to work. The events where handled in wrong order, but I think it is hard to notice this unless you use the Alt keys to acces the menus. (BTW Firefox had a similar bug.) Later I have put some other patches there too. And once again: I do not consider it a fork. Some people have indeed asked me to make it a fork but I have stayed here, hoping things should change. In the beginning some of my libraries came only with my patched version of Emacs. I did not think that was good so I instead created nXhtml where nearly all my librarries now are. (The name is unfortunate since there are quite a few things that is not about XHTML or web development, but it is too much work to change it.) This can be used everywhere where Emacs can be used (but requires often a newer version). >> How do you think Lennart could have >> changed the key bindings for the needs of W32 users? > > What are the specific key bindings needs for W32 users that standard > Emacs does not support? We have CUA mode, and it's not hard to load a > package to rebind whatever is necessary. AFAIK, Lennart has code to > make using the Alt key as alt easier, but I'd like to know what are > the specific troubles that require so, and how necessary it really is. Please excuse me, Juanma, but I find this a bit annoying. I have explained this several times before here. And I also find it a bit hopeful. Using the right and left windows keys as Emacs META requires that a low level keyboard hook is used. Just read the documentation at MS to see that. (I have given link to it previously.) This is actually a rather simple change. The other two changes above are more complicated. > Also, note that I've said "to make it appealing to Windows users", not > "to make it a clone of every Windows application". Of course if you > need that *everything* works in Emacs *exactly* as in Notepad, then > use Notepad. I would be glad if you (and others) did not try to make other people look silly.