From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:40:13 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> <87ocecdzou.fsf@telefonica.net> <2256C17F740A425884AD551DE7758056@us.oracle.com> <87fwzodqqm.fsf@telefonica.net> <5138CDF30B2D4B778F948015614DA7BC@us.oracle.com> <87iq4ijtdy.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87mxtr8i6l.fsf@telefonica.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279824048 32051 80.91.229.12 (22 Jul 2010 18:40:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:40:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: ams@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 22 20:40:45 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc0hF-00078F-5J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:40:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41356 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oc0hE-0007kB-BT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:40:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=42201 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oc0h9-0007if-PB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:40:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc0h8-0001LB-Gp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:40:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.216.41]:59788) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc0h8-0001Kw-EK; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:40:34 -0400 Original-Received: by qwk4 with SMTP id 4so3416458qwk.0 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:40:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=42aUd6SXic1vLPoyGVJe13YOrbqm9Helswr8GEAaTec=; b=nUxABsoIykFnoqMzUejsT6pzUkobgaJ2eLdY8/ZNnbcANphhuEmCk2MxPE1NsQRjAg yJPMOLSed3GPqZ+6IrQGpA/BzGHRSMn7xQISDeXMd8iQB3sWSI7ZpkYlM1WPXwoeAnGs rBZLLkYb/8cbPgT7pY5egHdM8m0svgpP9ztdk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=YfKaCEKLFFo2XwHnag0W1nXdriS0f1u4ihFDmZ/m7fNIz60KxrZO8UK8WWsoff8KSz hopZdXPHwLTuj0yFuDCXZti5NgR2CWtZut2DimcuCvbBKQfCWTO63b+b2CTqi9FYRj+H UOizcY+B1IUNem4Lrf2axZ7qB9C/aVjsEbxiQ= Original-Received: by 10.224.3.3 with SMTP id 3mr1585880qal.32.1279824033358; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.229.5.72 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:40:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127652 Archived-At: On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote: > =C2=A0 > Can we please stop with the extravagant claim that new users are > =C2=A0 > not attracted to emacs because of some idiosyncratic bindings? > > =C2=A0 That claim is extravagant indeed. The users are not attracted by > =C2=A0 the idiosyncratic keybindings, they are *repelled* by them. > > Again, simply not true, please stop. =C2=A0_Your_ experience might dictat= e > things that are different frommine, but claiming that users are > "repelled' is simply not true since new users use emacs. Of course "repelled" and "attracted" should be thought of as forces. So the claim that users are "repelled" by the keybindings can (and probably IMO are) true even if new users use emacs.